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misterbean

Fumbling My Way through History
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I've been looking all over the internet, but I can't seem to find the answer.

what was the total number of allied divisions in France in 1944, after the landing of the US 7th Army? I'm looking specifically to how many inf, mot/mech, arm in total.

***rant on***it is quite frustrating, really. I mean, it is quite possibly the only just war the Allies ever fought. I don't even have to blink to find the German army composition, down to the last f**ing battalion, but the guys that fought and died to free us all? no, sir. not interested. ***rant off***

sorry. just had to get it out of my system.
anyway, a link or a complete answer would be highly appreciated.
thank you.
 
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yea its kinda odd how there seems to be a fascination with german army make up right from the start of the war and much less the soviets or allies , lets face it germany had an evil goverment and the guys who fought them deserve more respect .
 
It depends if you want exact numbers for a scientific purpose or approximate numbers for some discussion.

If approximate numbers are enough, then check Operation Dragoon, 15 August 1944 (Wiki) for the Southern Army OOB. 1944 scenario has good Allied OOB at the beginning of Operation Cobra, 25 July 1944. That leaves you with a 3 week gap. I would add to OOB some divisions stationed in England. You can also check British and American divisions (Wiki). There is there more detailed information where the divisions were stationed at any time.
 
It depends if you want exact numbers for a scientific purpose or approximate numbers for some discussion.

If approximate numbers are enough, then check Operation Dragoon, 15 August 1944 (Wiki) for the Southern Army OOB. 1944 scenario has good Allied OOB at the beginning of Operation Cobra, 25 July 1944. That leaves you with a 3 week gap. I would add to OOB some divisions stationed in England. You can also check British and American divisions (Wiki). There is there more detailed information where the divisions were stationed at any time.

aproximate numbers are enough. I managed to piece some of it together, but finding which units, listed as "infantry", are actually in-game mot and which ones were mech by 1944, that's the rub. take the US 1st infantry Division, for instance. from my research, I think they were mechanised. it is very rare to find them listing "armoured infantry" regiment by name in their composition.

this is going to take a while to piece it together properly. since this forum holds a rare number of WWII-experts (some of which might have actually served in later versions of the very divs I'm looking for), I thought to speed things up a little.

the US had 48 "infantry" divisions (not sure how many of which type) in Europe by march/april 1945 and 16 arm. the British, in 1944, had, as far as I can tell, 2 airborne, 4 infantry, 2 mot, 5 arm.
Canadians had 3 inf and 2 armour brigades (arm/mot).
Belgium had 1 mot/ac/motorised art (Spart in game) (Brigade Piron) (yeah! :p)
Poles had 1 Harm I think (the Polish 1st armoured division drove Churchill tanks. those are Harm, right?). possibly one inf.
not sure about South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, France (at least 1 arm there), Greece, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands,...

you starting to see my problem, here? :wacko:
 
I don"t remember the numbers myself, though I do remember that Patton's 3rd Army had more Divisions (20) than Monty's Army Group. See "Crusade in Europe" by Dwight D. Eisenhower, "War as I Knew It" by G. S. Patton and "History of the Second World War" by B. H. L. Hart.
 
I don"t remember the numbers myself, though I do remember that Patton's 3rd Army had more Divisions (20) than Monty's Army Group. See "Crusade in Europe" by Dwight D. Eisenhower, "War as I Knew It" by G. S. Patton and "History of the Second World War" by B. H. L. Hart.

thanks. I'm going to look for those books. especially the Eisenhower book...written by, at that point in time, the most powerful military leader in history...seems very interesting.
 
finding which units, listed as "infantry", are actually in-game mot and which ones were mech by 1944, that's the rub. take the US 1st infantry Division, for instance. from my research, I think they were mechanised. it is very rare to find them listing "armoured infantry" regiment by name in their composition.
Well, that is of course because neither the British nor the US Army had any 'motorised' or 'mechanised' divisions as such; they just called them all plain 'infantry'.

However, a standard British infantry division in 1944 had 3830 motor vehicles integral to its organisation - compare that to a German infantry division of the same year with only 783 motor vehicles (and 4656 horses), or even a Panzergrenadier division with 3106 motor vehicles. By that reckoning, every British infantry division should count as at least motorised. However, you have to make the judgement case-by-case by comparing the type of equipment each formation used; you can't just look down a list of divisions and count off how many are motorised, how many are mechanised, and how many are straight-leg like you can with the German or Soviet army.



On 31 August 1944 there were the following Allied divisions in France (source: Ellis, WW2 Databook):

Armoured:

US:
2nd Armored Division
3rd Armored Division
4th Armored Division
5th Armored Division
6th Armored Division
7th Armored Division

British:
Guards Armoured Division
7th Armoured Division
11th Armoured Division
79th Armoured Division

Other:
4th Canadian Armoured Division
1st Polish Armoured Division
2nd French Armoured Division

Plus six independent armoured brigades - note: these had the same number of tanks as an armoured division, but without the infantry support (they were normally assigned to infantry units on an ad-hoc basis as needed.) All are British unless noted.
4th Armoured Brigade
8th Armoured Brigade
6th Guards Tank Brigade
34th Army Tank Brigade
2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade
Czech Independent Armoured Brigade

Total: 13 divisions + 6 brigades


Infantry

US:
1st Division
2nd Division
3rd Division
4th Division
5th Division
8th Division
9th Division
28th Division
29th Division
30th Division
35th Division
36th Division
45th Division
79th Division
80th Division
83th Division
90th Division

British:
3rd Division
15th Division
43rd Division
49th Division
50th Division
51st Division
53rd Division
59th Division

Other:
2nd Canadian Division
3rd Canadian Division
1st French Motorised Division
2nd Moroccan Division
3rd Algerian Division
4th Moroccan Mountain Division
1st Special Service Force
 
France (at least 1 arm there), Greece, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands,...

you starting to see my problem, here? :wacko:
On the 16th of August, I think there were at least 3 French divisions in provence (1st Armoured, general du Vigier, 1st DFL, general Brosset and 3rd DIA, general Monsabert) and another one in normandy (2nd armoured indeed, general Leclerc). Possibly more but I am not sure, I think quite a few others arrived before september / october (9th DIC one week later, general Magnan+Marocan groups). About 77,000 troops before the start of september (not taking into account the resistance fighters).
 
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