From colonie to state

[skinkyskating]

I want to change Java into a state I have been encouraging beurocrats for 3 years and the precent of beurocrats has not increased, am I missing a technology or is it impossible

[Duke of Awesome]

I want to change Java into a state I have been encouraging beurocrats for 3 years and the precent of beurocrats has not increased, am I missing a technology or is it impossible

They have to be of the primary or accepted culture type. You can have 5% bureaucrats but since Java has such a large native population, and such a low Dutch population, it will take a very long time to get Dutch bureaucrats

[skinkyskating]

They have to be of the primary or accepted culture type. You can have 5% bureaucrats but since Java has such a large native population, and such a low Dutch population, it will take a very long time to get Dutch bureaucrats

Thank you. Are there technologies to speed up the process?

[fenwayb]

They have to be of the primary or accepted culture type. You can have 5% bureaucrats but since Java has such a large native population, and such a low Dutch population, it will take a very long time to get Dutch bureaucrats

with Java you could have 100% bureaucrats and still not get it.

As to the op, realistically, there is no way to state Java without extreme luck.

[skinkyskating]

Oh thAt sucks. Thanks.

So that means if colonised a place then I could turn it into a state and if I conquered a place then I can't.

[fenwayb]

Oh thAt sucks. Thanks.

So that means if colonised a place then I could turn it into a state and if I conquered a place then I can't.

not necessarily, no. Places like Java, or pieces of China, are really hard to turn into states because of their massive population. You need more Dutch Bureaucrats in Java than the entire Dutch population of the island.

I just had a thought though. IRL, if a country was in a situation like this, where they wanted the right infrastructure in a colony to be able to industrialize it (I.E. make it a state) then wouldn't they have been able to do *something*? There should be some way to influence it a bit more than you can now. The immigration NF and citizenship policies aren't effective enough atm.

[Naselus]

I'm hoping that the whole colonizing process gets revamped by Paradox, from initial landing to statehood, but atm there's barely any script hooks for it so there's not much we can do (aside from stupid things, like mapping decisions to every state in the world)

[skinkyskating]

not necessarily, no. Places like Java, or pieces of China, are really hard to turn into states because of their massive population. You need more Dutch Bureaucrats in Java than the entire Dutch population of the island.

I just had a thought though. IRL, if a country was in a situation like this, where they wanted the right infrastructure in a colony to be able to industrialize it (I.E. make it a state) then wouldn't they have been able to do *something*? There should be some way to influence it a bit more than you can now. The immigration NF and citizenship policies aren't effective enough atm.

So does this rule apply for the rest of the Dutch east indies or just Java. Can I turn the other islands into states?

[fenwayb]

So does this rule apply for the rest of the Dutch east indies or just Java. Can I turn the other islands into states?

it's not really a rule, it's just what'll realistically happen, but yeah, Java is the only one that is more or less impossible to grant statehood to

[Caewil]

So does this rule apply for the rest of the Dutch east indies or just Java. Can I turn the other islands into states?

Possibly. Most of the low-pop colonies are in the northern bits of the east indies. Johore and Brunei are good candidates. Because they have low starting pops, it's easier to get enough dutch migrants to make them states.

[Vorlend]

(aside from stupid things, like mapping decisions to every state in the world)

Maybe it's not so stupid, you only need to map decisions to "uncivilized" states.

[Yosiu]

One question Naselus : can we make a demotion modifier for exact poptype ?
For example in common/poptypes.txt but with "type=bureaucrats" ?
If yes, then you could add big demotion modifier for wrong culture, so bureaucrats will be proper culture only (combined with current promotion bonus in colonies).

[StratApple]

I don't see why it should be easy at all to convert colonies into states. I think the only examples of this happening during the timeframe was French Algeria and maybe some parts of India.
Anyway it would be way overpower for the colonial powers if they could build massive industries in places like Africa.

[Yosiu]

It wouldn't be easy: You still have to had at least 1% of your cultural population there (if they would all be bureaucrats) In highly populated areas it would take years.

And second thing: Why would it be so hard to make proper state there ? Colony don't have industry, and don't get rgo modifiers from modern technologies. Why should some provinces be still in dark ages while rest of the country is electrified and using modern equipment ?

Massive industrailisation of Africa won't be easy: you can have there colony pretty late, population there is pretty small, so not many peoplo would leave RGO's, and literacy is dramatically low.

[skinkyskating]

For now I gave up on converting any of the Dutch east indies regions into a state, since last post I tried to increase beurocrats in Jahore for a year,nothing changed,there wasn't even a .01 increase. It's frustrating not to know what factors determine my little beurocrats moving to a colony and increasing administrative efficiency.

[Yosiu]

To make colony change to state you have to get there at least 1% of bureaucrats of your accepted or primary culture.
If province is pretty empty it's no problem just give them a time, since only your culture pop promote to bureaucrats.
The problem arise when there are already lot of bureaucrats of different culture. They don't demote easily enough, and your culture pop won't promote to bureaucrats becouse there is enough high % of 'crats in province. So it's something like stalemate.

[moldeh]

First off, you can't promote non-accepted/main culture crats. The only way to get such crats is to have states that for some reason ended up with them, and they're useless in every way. This is general advice.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if you focus crats, when there aren't enough main/accepted pops to convert to crats. Wait for people to move to johore (there's gold there and it's empty, so it shouldn't take long) and then NF crats. Otherwise you're wasting your NF.

[DoctorPlague]

Oh thAt sucks. Thanks.

So that means if colonised a place then I could turn it into a state and if I conquered a place then I can't.

Yeah for the most part, but if many of your people travel to the colony, maybe coz its lucrative for them to live there, you can have a big imperialist population there and thus get your bueraucrats to convert it to state. I have seen it happen, also in conquered place in africa, but wouldnt count on it happening. U could try using immigration focus, but I havent tried that so I dont know if its effective in long term.