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Reclaiming Sicily: Declaring Holy War on the Muslim Vassals of a Sultan?

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Jul 2, 2012
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  • Crusader Kings II
Playing as di Canossa in Tuscany. Schemed my way into getting my daughter matrilineally married to the hier to the Norman Kingdom of Sicily, then murdered the child king so my Son in Law would inherit. The inept idiot then promptly lost a Muslim jihad war for Sicily and came crawling home with his tail between his legs and now instead of a Christian kingdom of Sicily with my bloodline on the throne, I've got a muslim Sultanate of Sicily sitting at my back door.

I wanted to declare war on the muslim duchy (I cant remember all the muslim terms...is it Bey?) that was immediately next to my lands and then work my way through, but it said I couldnt declare war on that Bey because he wasnt independent. So I clicked on his liege's portrait and from a laundry list of CBs, I selected "Holy War for Sicily," thinking that if I wont that would entitle me to all the lands of Sicily, because that SEEMED to be what the muslims did to my idiot son in law when in one fell swoop they took all the lands of southern italy.

Instead, i got a very complicated all out fisticuffs against like 17k muslim troops that involved me sieging all of the muslim counties in sicily, then some cat and mouse in the mountains and a trip to the holy lands to occupy some of the liege's land there before I could get the score to 100% and enforce demands...But all I got was the three counties that the Sultan directly owned in Sicily, none of his vassal lands, even though I had occupied them.

1. Even though it still shows Italian culture and Catholic religion in the counties I took, I now have the option to usurp the Beybey something (not the Duchy), does that mean I am somehow this Sultan's vassal? Will it ever go back to being a Duchy?
2. I see some of the vassal counties listed separately as distinct CBs in the war list under the Sultan. Does that mean that I have to go to war one by one to take each of the vassal lands. Is there no way to choose an option that will let me go Holy War for all the vassal holdings in Sicily? (eg can I shift and select multiple? or only if there's some bundle option? If so, how do I know what bundle options apply because the K of Sicily holy war didnt do it?)
3. I dont remember if "enforce all demands" appeared at the bottom of the laundry list of 17 CBs against this sultan, but if you enforce more (or fewer) demands, does that change how much you have to do to get the warscore up to 100%? Like if I only go for one county, would occupying all of that county and the rest of the Sultan's Sicily lands be enough, but if I somehow went for all the sultan's lands, I would need to occupy more or win more fights because I'm going after more land?
 
It sounds like you got the Duchy of Sicily in a Holy War. Holy Wars target duchies, not kingdoms. There is both a Duchy of Sicily and Kingdom of Sicily.

If the Muslims took the entire Kingdom of Sicily in a single war, it was probably an Invasion, or possibly a Jihad. Both of those target kingdoms.
 
So if they took it in an invasion or jihad, is there anyway for me to take it all back in a single CB declaration, or am I going to have to gocounty by county, raising troops, winning, dismissing troops and redeclaring for the next? Does that at least mean that what you have to achieve to get the 100% warscore is less for a single county than the whole kingdom?
 
airyn124 said:
So if they took it in an invasion or jihad, is there anyway for me to take it all back in a single CB declaration,
Click to expand...

As a Catholic: Unless the Pope calls a crusade for it, no.

or am I going to have to gocounty by county, raising troops, winning, dismissing troops and redeclaring for the next?
Click to expand...

Well unless every sheikh or whatever is independent, no, you can keep using Holy War to take the rest a duchy at a time. Either way, if you're going to repeatedly declare war on the Sultan, use lots of mercenaries and holy orders. They don't have to be dismissed before declaring war.

Does that at least mean that what you have to achieve to get the 100% warscore is less for a single county than the whole kingdom?
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
grisamentum said:
As a Catholic: Unless the Pope calls a crusade for it, no.



Well unless every sheikh or whatever is independent, no, you can keep using Holy War to take the rest a duchy at a time. Either way, if you're going to repeatedly declare war on the Sultan, use lots of mercenaries and holy orders. They don't have to be dismissed before declaring war.



Yes.
Click to expand...

invasion CB which the pope can grant for 500 piety gives total capture of someones territory ( a kingdom for instance)
 
airyn124 said:
So if they took it in an invasion or jihad, is there anyway for me to take it all back in a single CB declaration, or am I going to have to gocounty by county, raising troops, winning, dismissing troops and redeclaring for the next?
Click to expand...
This is one jarring adjustment that this game forces you to make vs any other game of conquest: you're only entitled to what you declared the war to be about in the first place, and not to the holdings you happen to occupy when the war ends. In other words, when you select one of the Holy War for... or Dejure War for...buttons, it will tell you what winning the war will get you. When the war ends, you have to give back the rest of what you're occupying.

Apparently, there once was a "press all claims" option when you declare war, but I've never seen it in the month I've had the game. Going back again to press whatever other claims you have before the truce expires will result in some sort of penalty (piety loss, or a loss in standing in the eyes of certain rulers...Muslim ones in this case).

Does that at least mean that what you have to achieve to get the 100% warscore is less for a single county than the whole kingdom?
Click to expand...

Yes...if you're only fighting over a single county, you can get the war score close to 100% pretty quickly. The more territory you're trying to claim, the longer it will take. In some cases, you may have to travel hundreds of miles away to besiege and take other territories held by your enemy, just to convince them that they should give in to your demands.

Note that you don't need to get to 100% to force a surrender: some will give in to all your demands at 90%, while others are delusional in the face of their entire army being wiped out, and will only surrender when they get to 100%.
 
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When you select a cb in the diplomacy screen, the territory being targeted will be highlighted with a flashing red outline on the main map. Use that to confirm what you will get if you win the war. In this case, it sounds like the Sultan and his vassals only owned 3 provinces in the de jure Duchy of Sicily, so when you won, you got only them. The de facto Emirate of Sicily might have owned some provinces outside the de jure duchy, but the cb only targets provinces inside the de jure borders.

@RobertoTomba: The press all claims cb only works for personal claims of your ruler. I.e. if you have a personal claim on Sicily and Calabria, you can press both at the same time, but you can't press the Holy War cb for both duchies at the same time.
 
You could press the former King's claim on the Kingdom of Sicily - you mentioned that he's at your court. That would have the advantage that unlike a holy war, not all Muslims can join the war.
 
RobertoTomba said:
This is one jarring adjustment that this game forces you to make vs any other game of conquest: you're only entitled to what you declared the war to be about in the first place, and not to the holdings you happen to occupy when the war ends. In other words, when you select one of the Holy War for... or Dejure War for...buttons, it will tell you what winning the war will get you. When the war ends, you have to give back the rest of what you're occupying.

Apparently, there once was a "press all claims" option when you declare war, but I've never seen it in the month I've had the game. Going back again to press whatever other claims you have before the truce expires will result in some sort of penalty (piety loss, or a loss in standing in the eyes of certain rulers...Muslim ones in this case).



Yes...if you're only fighting over a single county, you can get the war score close to 100% pretty quickly. The more territory you're trying to claim, the longer it will take. In some cases, you may have to travel hundreds of miles away to besiege and take other territories held by your enemy, just to convince them that they should give in to your demands.

Note that you don't need to get to 100% to force a surrender: some will give in to all your demands at 90%, while others are delusional in the face of their entire army being wiped out, and will only surrender when they get to 100%.
Click to expand...

'Press all claims' still exists, but it only works for personal claims (like the sort you get from fabricating with your chancellor). It doesn't work for de jure claims.
 
Apparently, there once was a "press all claims" option when you declare war, but I've never seen it in the month I've had the game.
Click to expand...

There still it but it only works for personal claims on titles, not de jure claims. If you were the Duke of Barcelona and you somehow had a personal claim on the Duchy of Toulouse and the Duchy of Aquitaine, you could attack the King of France using the "Press All Claims" button and take both duchies for your Duke.
 
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