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Sweynforkbeard

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I am currently trying to play as (Norman) king of Sicily, but I have had no luck converting any countries to any other culture than they already have.

I simply do not seem to comprehend the new rules for culture converting. How can I convert Sicily to Norman or alternatively to Italien?
 
Essentially, make sure whoever holds the title for a given county is of the culture you want to switch to and it will happen eventually. The specific triggers have been discussed in other threads before.
 
If I remember correctly, if a province has your religion it will only convert if it neighbors a province that it will convert to. If a province is of a different religion it can convert to any. Again, this is if I remember correctly.
 
Ataulf said:
It's not very realistic to have regions where 99% of the population (the peasantry) adopt the language of the 1%, Norman in this case, despite having absolutely no reason to do so. I like the new patch's changes in this regard.
Click to expand...
England became quite french influenced rapidly when the normans took over. Concievably French could have become the official language. Apparently what caused the change was the fact that the Kingdom of England lost Normandy. I suppose this does give weight to the idea that you need an adjacent province in order for something to switch, but there's still the fact that nearby provinces by water don't count.
 
liamgamer55 said:
England became quite french influenced rapidly when the normans took over. Concievably French could have become the official language. Apparently what caused the change was the fact that the Kingdom of England lost Normandy. I suppose this does give weight to the idea that you need an adjacent province in order for something to switch, but there's still the fact that nearby provinces by water don't count.
Click to expand...

Official language means that the ruling elite speaks it, not the population. How much did the population itself really get influenced by the Normans (and not just the nobility)?
 
Maginor said:
Official language means that the ruling elite speaks it, not the population. How much did the population itself really get influenced by the Normans (and not just the nobility)?
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I never said just the official language. Anyway this is based on what a doco called "the story of english" said.
 
Maginor said:
Official language means that the ruling elite speaks it, not the population. How much did the population itself really get influenced by the Normans (and not just the nobility)?
Click to expand...

Finally, something right up my alley. Of the 100 most common words written in English (official study), 97% were Germanic and 3% were Italic (I realize there is some Germanic influence in all Romance languages, but lets assume Germanic means pre-Norman and Italic means French). Of the 1st 1,000, 57% are Germanic, 36% are Italic, 4% Hellenic and 3% other. Finally of the 2nd 1,000, the spread is 39%, 51%, 4% and 6%.

The amount to which Norman rendered a linguistic impact on the population is tied directly to how educated (and likely therefore wealthy) an individual was. Does it really matter what languages the farmers are speaking? I'd say it matters as little as what language the courts are using. Provincial language would preferably be decided on what is spoken in the towns, among the middle class burghers and petty nobles. And theoretically, that should change within a few generations.
 
liamgamer55 said:
I never said just the official language. Anyway this is based on what a doco called "the story of english" said.
Click to expand...

You're probably misunderstanding a simplified version of events.

If the English hadn't lost Normandy, then they'd probably also have won the 100 years war and conquered all of France and ruled England from the continent. In that case then yeah, the English might have eventually spoke French just like the Scottish and Irish mostly speak English.

The entire aristocracy of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth spoke Polish as a first language. The lower classes still spoke a mix of ukrainian, belarussian, lithuanian, German, Yiddish etc right up to the end.
 
hmm, the elite determining province culture works pretty well because there was no widespread education, language would never really change amongst the common folks
 
Playing as the King of Galicia, Portugal, Castille, Aragon and whatnot and having almost the whole peninsula under my rule for at least 100 years (more like 200 if you count de jure Kingdom of Portugal which is still Andalusian), still all the original territories are maintaining their old culture. Pretty much half of my realm doesn't want to change from Andalusian including Lisboa my capital... 90%+ of my vassals - counts included - are Portuguese. I'd say this is not working as intended in this patch, but that's just me.
 
I like the current difficulty for culture to spread. However, certain special situations should have special events. Sicily is virtually guaranteed to never culture switch to Italian, and it isn't much more likely for many of the Greek provinces on mainland Italy.

Iberia is another problem area. I don't even know how culture change is/would/should affect England. How does English culture arise? By event after the Norman conquest, to represent the fusion of Anglo-Saxon and Franco-Norman culture/language? If so, then I guess it's the example Sicily and Iberia should follow. Or is it just reserved for later start date?
 
liamgamer55 said:
England became quite french influenced rapidly when the normans took over. Concievably French could have become the official language. Apparently what caused the change was the fact that the Kingdom of England lost Normandy. I suppose this does give weight to the idea that you need an adjacent province in order for something to switch, but there's still the fact that nearby provinces by water don't count.
Click to expand...
I'd imagine French was the 'official language' of the English aristocracy for many decades even after the Norman holdings were lost, as they were simply the descendants of Norman landlords who deposed their Anglo-Saxon predecessors. Many English kings spoke English only as a second language, or not at all.

The chances of this feeding down to the peasantry and completely supplanting the Old English of the time entirely I would rate as very unlikely however, as while there were grammatical influences throughout the centuries, the only historical examples of this sort of phenomenon I can think of relied very heavily on a certain degree of social mobility and the educative apparatus of the nation-state, which would come far after the auspices of the game's time-frame.
 
mudcrabmerchant said:
How does English culture arise? By event after the Norman conquest, to represent the fusion of Anglo-Saxon and Franco-Norman culture/language? If so, then I guess it's the example Sicily and Iberia should follow. Or is it just reserved for later start date?
Click to expand...

There are a series of events that fire if a single province in England is owned by a Norman causing everyone to culture-shift eventually. So if you ever take England as the Normans, don't invest in Squire lists.

Francis II said:
I remember advocating a Sicilian melting pot event on the CK1 forum, similar to the English one. I still think it's a good idea.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Interesting discussion. Though, my primary concern was how the settler event functions in for Sicily (if at all). I tried experimenting for several hours installing normans or italiens in the conquered muslim provinces on Sicily and then running (full speed) until they had all converted religion. Not once did any of the provinces change culture so I a bit mystified.

Recently I also played a Danish baltic sea grab game and not a single province flipped culture. Though I did notice that sweeden managed to flip one province.
 
justin6477 said:
Does it really matter what languages the farmers are speaking? I'd say it matters as little as what language the courts are using.
Click to expand...
But in England, even the elite quickly became assimilated into the English. The courts and the government was conducted in the French language for a while, but the actual people (nobles) very quickly became English. Which was kinda to be expected what with their English wives, mothers, nannies, servants, and well, almost everyone around them. Which is why English eventually remerged as the official language.
 
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