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Thread: Paradox Games Learning Curve

  1. #1
    Sergeant leftguard's Avatar
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    Paradox Games Learning Curve

    My first post on these forums, and as you'll see from my profile, I've been a big fan of Paradox titles since first stumbling across the original Crusader Kings. I followed up with HOI3 (which I recently repurchased on Steam, so that I could add all the DLC and expansions) and Pride of Nations (which I must admit I couldn't get into at all). However the release of CK2 has made me a fan all over again, and I have now added Victoria 2 and Europa Universalis Rome to my collection, with plans to get EU3 and Sengoku as soon as I can.
    Having had an initial try out of V2 by playing as an uncivilised nation (Nepal), and Rome (messing about with Wales) I think there's probably a nice progression that could be followed while I learn (and re-learn) the basics of these games, rather than leaping straight from the fairly simple CK2 to the more challenging mechanics of V2 and PON.
    As an example, I think Sengoku might be a nice bridge between CK2 and Rome (with it's reduced control of characters being a bit puzzling), and probably EU3 might be a nice introduction to the concepts of PON and V2.
    As a one time player of Avalon Hill board games (possible giving away my age a bit here), I find HOI3 to be more intuitive at least as far as the combat goes.
    Any thoughts very welcome
    Last edited by leftguard; 12-07-2012 at 13:03.

  2. #2
    Crusader for Fun and Profit Murmurandus's Avatar
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    PON is not a real Paradox (Clausewitz engine) game as it's been developped by AGEOD and it's turnbased as compared to stoppable real time.

    But yes, there is a learning curve. I guess the Vicky games are indeed the most difficult because there's more too manage. CKII is pretty sleek and clean and reasonably easy to get the basics as is EUIII. Rome is kind of a spin-off from EUIII, so...

    A lot has to do with how much time you're willing to invest. These games grow through experience.
    "May the Earth tremble with Beer... euh, Fear"

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    "Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes."

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  3. #3
    Sergeant leftguard's Avatar
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    Thanks Murmurandus! I think the beauty of these games is their ultimate replayability over the years, and they don't seem to date as quickly as other game types often do.

    I notice you have Sengoku - would you recommend it? Funnily enough I had it on my Steam wishlist prior to the arrival of CK2, as I spotted it's similarity to the orginal Crusader Kings. I'm just waiting for a sale before picking it up though, as it's still a bit pricey!

  4. #4
    Crusader for Fun and Profit Murmurandus's Avatar
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    Still need to play Sengoku. Bought it when it was on discount and it's still sitting there in my Jeez-That's-A-Long-List-Of-Games-I-Bought-On-Discount-Which-I-Really-Should-Play-Some-Day... Currently CKII is my number one Paradox game. From what I've heard it clean and polished as CKII, but slightly less in possibilities and gameplay. Kind of light version or so.

    And yes, you can come back to these games year after year and still find them as enjoyable as ever.
    "May the Earth tremble with Beer... euh, Fear"

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  5. #5
    Sergeant leftguard's Avatar
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    Aha, I see the Steam Summer Sale has started today - off to count my pennies!

  6. #6
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    Dear fellow Paradox-maniac Leftguard,
    I see some frivolous spending in your immediate future But seriously, i see you have a very healthy view on the whole matter and you will probably end up surpassing me in icons, despite my being here for over a decade
    But seriously now, to your gaming comments: i totally agree on the PoN issue, i could not really get into it as well. As fro Sengoku, it is kind of nice, but compared to CK2 you will probably find it simplistic. What you need to do though, is start playing Europa Universalis, I mean RIGHT NOW ! You are honestly missing out on the flagship game here...With all the expansions and a few amazing mods, EU3 is quite breathtaking in scope and potential.
    Personally, i got hooked with EU1 back in 2000 and i never looked back, despite bying almost all Paradox games, just to support them. And quite honestly i believe you will get your money's worth out of a number of oldies as well, like HoI2 (IMHO far more playable and moddable than HoI3), EU2 (or For the Glory, if you wish) and Victoria 1 (with the amazing VIP mod). Don't fear the reaper (in this case, Paradox's past), he is ridiculously cheap and will keep you amazed for weeks...
    Leader of the late Eutopian Marxist Party.
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  7. #7
    Sergeant leftguard's Avatar
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    Thanks Angelos. Yes, I think I'm slightly addicted, but wow....that's some kind of wall of icons you have there! Doubtful that I'll ever have quite that many, but this Summer Sale should certainly help
    I actually used to own the original version of EU3 (no add ons), so it's one of the games I'm keen to repurchase having watched a few let's play videos. With regard to older games and Victoria 1, how does it compare with V2 complexity wise? I was wondering whether it might provide an easier introduction to the whole POPs concept.

  8. #8
    Crusader for Fun and Profit Murmurandus's Avatar
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    Vicky 1 was notoriously complex just because of the POP management. Vicky 2 is 'easier' on that regard...
    "May the Earth tremble with Beer... euh, Fear"

    "Never change a winning avatar..."

    "Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes."

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  9. #9
    Sergeant leftguard's Avatar
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    Okay, thanks

  10. #10
    War is over! if you want it Titan79's Avatar
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    If I may add, since Angelos has correctly suggested HoI2 - I'd rather point you to Arsenal of Democracy (an evolution of the former). Lots of great concepts and innovations there. If you like WW2 and are a bit "scared" about the complexity of HoI3, give it a go!
    “Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized: in the first it is ridiculed, in the second it is opposed, in the third it is regarded as self-evident” (Arthur Schopenhauer)


  11. #11
    Sergeant leftguard's Avatar
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    Thanks Titan79, not really familiar with that one - shall check it out

  12. #12
    War is over! if you want it Titan79's Avatar
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    I think you won't regret doing that!
    “Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized: in the first it is ridiculed, in the second it is opposed, in the third it is regarded as self-evident” (Arthur Schopenhauer)


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