Supply depots

[WCG]

How do I specify what will be stored in supply depots? For that matter, how do I create new supply depots?

Playing as the United States, I see that there are several supply depots scattered on islands in the Pacific, but none of them contain oil. I moved planes to Pearl Harbor, and now they're out of oil. There's a thousand "supplies" in the depot there, but no oil. And my convoy isn't running to resupply, because it says the depot is already full. Well, it is,... just not with any oil.

Note that oil is selected in that particular convoy (and I removed oil from the resource convoy going in the opposite direction), but I can't find a way to tell it to store oil in that supply depot.

One other question: The manual says to set up a string of supply depots throughout the Pacific (using convoys from one depot to the next). However, when I tried to do that from Pearl Harbor to Midway, Pearl Harbor is not an option for the supply side of a convoy. So how can I implement that? (And, as I say, how do I create new supply depots, assuming that I manage to take some islands from the Japanese?)

Thanks...

[Cally]

I think the 'convoy reset' trick will work here. Put any units/planes where you want them to be, then go to your convoy screen. Deselect the auto-convoy options and delete all of your current convoys. Then wait a day. Then go back and turn the auto-convoy system on again. All of your convoys will be rebuilt, and the AI should realize you have a plane there now and start sending a convoy there with oil.

As for making it so you can use Pearl Harbor as a base of supplies... that I honestly don't know. I think a province needs an uninterrupted land connection with your capital to receive supplies from IC rather than have it convoyed to them. (For example, at the start of the 1936 scenario, Germany needs to convoy supplies to the units stationed in East Prussia because Poland is blocking a direct land connection, despite the fact Königsberg has factories and could build IC.)

Make sure you have enough convoys to handle all of this supply-running. It's easy to run out.

[WCG]

I think the 'convoy reset' trick will work here.

Thanks, but no luck. It rebuilt the convoy - all of the convoys - but still says there's no need to resupply Pearl Harbor.

However, the number of supplies in the depot have dropped from 1,000 to 574, so once that gets low enough (how low?), maybe the convoy will start hauling both oil and supplies. (Meanwhile, my planes sit with no fuel. Luckily, I'm not at war. But I wonder if this is going to happen everywhere, since none of my supply depots - other than at Washington, D.C. - have oil.)

As for making it so you can use Pearl Harbor as a base of supplies... that I honestly don't know. I think a province needs an uninterrupted land connection with your capital to receive supplies from IC rather than have it convoyed to them.

The funny thing is that the manual suggests setting up a string of convoys from one supply depot to the next. In fact, it specifically mentions doing that when island-hopping in the Pacific. It says that's more efficient than setting up separate convoys from the mainland for each depot. So it really seems odd to me that I can't do it.

What happens when I do take an island from Japan? How do supply dumps get set up in the first place? I can't find any way to do that manually, so I hope it happens automatically (and better than this works at Pearl Harbor!).

Make sure you have enough convoys to handle all of this supply-running. It's easy to run out.

Thanks. I've already made a bunch extra, but I'll keep an eye on that.

It's kind of funny, but since I started with the United States, I've been playing for days (years) without anything happening. Heh, heh. Well, I started in 1936, and the attack on Pearl Harbor isn't until 1941. So in the meantime, pretty much nothing is happening. So I guess I'm winning the game so far, huh? I have a feeling that, once I get to 1941, things will change in a hurry!

Thanks for the reply!

[Black Watch]

Not sure if I can help, but convoys can be one of the more confusing parts of the game.

When you enable auto-creation and auto-maintenance of convoys, the computer will check if there are oil-using units at that supply depot. If there are none (only infantry for example), it will only send supplies, even though oil is also checked in the convoys tab.

In my experience, it can take the computer a few days to respond to changes. For example, in my current game as Italy, I had only infantry on the island of Sardinia, so the convoys would only send supplies. Then I rebased some planes to Sardinia. It took a few days for a convoy with oil to be sent. So my planes were without oil for a few days.

[WCG]

In my experience, it can take the computer a few days to respond to changes.

Thanks. Yes, it started working, but it took months. The problem, apparently, was that the supply depot at Pearl Harbor started with 1,000 supplies. So it took a long, long time for that amount to drop low enough to start the convoys running. (It might have been quicker if I'd had a bigger military there.) Once the supply convoy started going to Pearl Harbor, it took oil, too.

I had the same problem at Midway, but that supply depot only started with 100 supplies, so it was much quicker.

I still haven't figured out how to run convoys from one supply depot to another, as the manual suggests. The convoy to Midway travels from California, and there's no option to supply from Pearl Harbor. So I'm guessing that the manual is simply wrong about that. (And I haven't figured out how to create a supply dump, either. Hopefully, that's automatic.)

Anyway, I've been playing for a couple of weeks now (only when I can find the time), and nothing has happened. I mean nothing! Heh, heh. It's really kind of funny. And I'm still only in 1939, so it's going to be awhile yet (unless Japan surprises me and attacks before 1941 - now that would be pretty funny!).

[Black Watch]

Thanks. Yes, it started working, but it took months. The problem, apparently, was that the supply depot at Pearl Harbor started with 1,000 supplies. So it took a long, long time for that amount to drop low enough to start the convoys running. (It might have been quicker if I'd had a bigger military there.) Once the supply convoy started going to Pearl Harbor, it took oil, too.

Yes. That seems to be it, all right.

I still haven't figured out how to run convoys from one supply depot to another, as the manual suggests. The convoy to Midway travels from California, and there's no option to supply from Pearl Harbor. So I'm guessing that the manual is simply wrong about that. (And I haven't figured out how to create a supply dump, either. Hopefully, that's automatic.)

Yes, the manual seems to be wrong on that. All supply convoys have to start from the primary supply depot, which is your capital, or any province connected by land to your capital. Sadly, it's not possible, despite what the manual says, to create secondary convoys from a secondary supply depot that lead to tertiary supply depots.

In your case, you're playing the US, so your capital is Washington, D.C. You can only create a supply convoy starting from the contiguous United States. I believe that shorter convoy routes require less ships, so it's still in your interest to shorten the route as much as possible. In that case, starting the convoy from California is the closest you can get to Pearl Harbor.

Anyway, I've been playing for a couple of weeks now (only when I can find the time), and nothing has happened. I mean nothing! Heh, heh. It's really kind of funny. And I'm still only in 1939, so it's going to be awhile yet (unless Japan surprises me and attacks before 1941 - now that would be pretty funny!).

Do you mean nothing at all in the whole world, or nothing involving the US? Generally, HoI 2 games proceed historically as long as the player does nothing to change the course of events. I was told by other players that AI-controlled Japan will not declare war on the US until after the US passes the oil embargo. I've never played the US, so I don't know for sure what's required to trigger that event. I think the US will get that event after France capitulates to Germany and Japan pressures Vichy France to get French Indochina. I believe it's an event with choice, so you as the player can decide whether to embargo Japan or not.

Didn't Japan attack China in 1937? Even that early in the game, you should be able to indirectly assist the Chinese through the Pitman Act. Also AI-controlled Germany will normally attack Poland in September 1939. Without directly joining the war yet, you will begin receiving events that will allow you to indirectly assist the Allies and the Soviets (Lend-Lease) and gradually move your economy to a war footing (Gearing up for War).

[WCG]

Do you mean nothing at all in the whole world, or nothing involving the US?

Heh, heh. Yes, things are going on elsewhere in the world, apparently. The Allies and the Axis are at war, though I can't see any of the fighting. And Japan has invaded China. Oddly enough, Germany rejected the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which I thought was kind of funny.

But all of this is happening without my involvement or even my knowledge, except for announcements of war, Germany's annexation of Poland, etc. Of course, I expected that when I chose to play the United States. But it does seem funny that I've been "playing" the game for two weeks without anything happening, really.

I was told by other players that AI-controlled Japan will not declare war on the US until after the US passes the oil embargo. I've never played the US, so I don't know for sure what's required to trigger that event. I think the US will get that event after France capitulates to Germany and Japan pressures Vichy France to get French Indochina. I believe it's an event with choice, so you as the player can decide whether to embargo Japan or not.

Interesting. I was surprised that America's battleships weren't restricted to Pearl Harbor until after the attack (as a couple of regiments are restricted to the Philippines and to the Panama Canal Zone until their events take place). I guess I expected the Pearl Harbor attack to take place as "scheduled," but maybe something different will happen.

Didn't Japan attack China in 1937? Even that early in the game, you should be able to indirectly assist the Chinese through the Pitman Act. Also AI-controlled Germany will normally attack Poland in September 1939. Without directly joining the war yet, you will begin receiving events that will allow you to indirectly assist the Allies and the Soviets (Lend-Lease) and gradually move your economy to a war footing (Gearing up for War).

Yes, Japan attacked China. But I haven't been able to assist anyone, not yet (but it's just early 1940 right now). Still, as I say, I expected all this. And I like the combination of historical accuracy with some variation.

Admittedly, I'm getting a bit eager for December 1941.

[Black Watch]

Oh, hey. Thanks to my being so slow to reply, I just saw in your other thread that the Japanese finally went and started it. Now the fun part begins for you.

Heh, heh. Yes, things are going on elsewhere in the world, apparently. The Allies and the Axis are at war, though I can't see any of the fighting. And Japan has invaded China. Oddly enough, Germany rejected the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which I thought was kind of funny.

But all of this is happening without my involvement or even my knowledge, except for announcements of war, Germany's annexation of Poland, etc. Of course, I expected that when I chose to play the United States. But it does seem funny that I've been "playing" the game for two weeks without anything happening, really.

The US joins the war late, as you know. Just think of it as extra years to prepare a massive invincible military force. The US [i]is[/is] the most powerful country in the world, after all. As FDR says, you must become the arsenal of democracy!

Regarding the M-R Pact, I don't think I've ever seen the Germans reject it, although I have seen the Soviets do so. Oddly enough, Germany seems less likely to attack the Soviets if the Soviets rejected the Pact!

For events, you can set the message settings to show events like "when a third country wins a war against another country". This is what I do to stay updated on events in the rest of the world, although it will really clutter up your event history.

Interesting. I was surprised that America's battleships weren't restricted to Pearl Harbor until after the attack (as a couple of regiments are restricted to the Philippines and to the Panama Canal Zone until their events take place). I guess I expected the Pearl Harbor attack to take place as "scheduled," but maybe something different will happen.

Ah, yes. The Philippine Division. It's a good thing the US can't move it, I use that division to defend Manila when I play the Philippines, since the Philippines has a lot of coastline to defend and not enough industry and manpower to do it.

Yes, Japan attacked China. But I haven't been able to assist anyone, not yet (but it's just early 1940 right now). Still, as I say, I expected all this. And I like the combination of historical accuracy with some variation.

Admittedly, I'm getting a bit eager for December 1941.

As you saw, the AI does things a bit ahistorically at times. Now, November 9, 1941 is a date that will live forever in infamy.

Regarding what you said about America's battleships being locked to Pearl Harbor - Paradox seems to have taken an interesting approach to Pearl Harbor. Obviously, they couldn't just make an event simulating Pearl Harbor that would, for example instantly destroy, all American ships based there at the time. Any US player with even the slightest historical knowledge could simply base his ships somewhere else, knowing what will happen. The only way to avoid that would be to lock the ships at Pearl, or design the event so that it destroys the US Navy no matter where it's based. But this would be unfair to the US player.

Instead, what Paradox tried something else. The "Pearl Harbor Surprise Attack" event does not harm any US ships, and the US Pacific Fleet isn't locked to Pearl. Instead, the event gives the Japanese significant advantages in both land and naval combat for several months afterwards. Until the event "The Enemy Recovers" happens, Japan will have a signicantly higher chance of having the element of surprise in every battle, among other things. I guess this is the best way that PI could attempt to represent Japan's advantages post-Pearl Harbor without being too heavy-handed on the player. That explains why when "Surprise Attack" happened, as you said in your blog, you didn't notice anything happening to your ships. Nothing did happen - on the surface, at least.

But at the same time, Pearl Harbor gives the US extra manpower, improved relations with the UK, and very good slider moves that move your policies more towards Interventionism and Hawkishness (the better to wage war with). All things considered, Pearl Harbor actually seems to benefit the US more than Japan! (representing how the US got uber-pissed off after Pearl, I suppose)

So if Japan chose to do "Surprise Attack", the US should actually be happy about it, apparently. Still, keep the higher Japanese ambush chance in my mind when you engage them in the first few months.

[WCG]

For events, you can set the message settings to show events like "when a third country wins a war against another country". This is what I do to stay updated on events in the rest of the world, although it will really clutter up your event history.

Yes, I did that, and even set the game to pause, because I like to know what's happening in the rest of the world. Many of the events are too obscure to tell me much, but that's OK.

The "Pearl Harbor Surprise Attack" event does not harm any US ships, and the US Pacific Fleet isn't locked to Pearl. Instead, the event gives the Japanese significant advantages in both land and naval combat for several months afterwards.

Neat! That's a brilliant way to do it. I was expecting to have a big setback, and have to claw back from that, but it might happen anyway, since I wasn't going to wait around, myself. (I haven't played much recently, but intend to get back into it today.)

Thanks for the info!
***

Re. Supply Depots, I'm still wondering about the gameplay with that. America was just given Greenland and Iceland as national possessions. I can rebase ships and planes in Iceland, since it has an air base and naval base, but I can't send troops to defend it, because my transports don't have that kind of range.

I was going to build a naval base on Greenland and rebase my transport ships there. Then, they could pick up troops from Boston and take them to Iceland (at least, I'm guessing that both would be in range, if barely).

However, I can't build a naval base or air base on Greenland, because there's no supply to it. I created a supply convoy, but it won't run, because there's no demand at Greenland. But I can't rebase planes or ships there to create demand, because there's no air or naval base. It seems like a Catch 22.

If I could just create a supply depot, and specify the amount of supplies and/or oil, then my supply convoy would run and I'd have no problem. But as far as I can tell, I can't do that. The only possible solution, I guess, is to drop off infantry on Greenland. Then, maybe, that would create a demand for supplies, causing the supply convoy to run, thus allowing me to build a naval base. But it seems like an awkward way to do it.

I keep thinking I'm missing something, but if so, I can't figure it out.

(I'm also discovering that, sometimes, my ships have far more range than they should have - like three times as much. But I can't tell why. I've only seen this in the Pacific, and only occasionally even there, so I don't know what's going on.)

[Black Watch]

Yes, I did that, and even set the game to pause, because I like to know what's happening in the rest of the world. Many of the events are too obscure to tell me much, but that's OK.




Neat! That's a brilliant way to do it. I was expecting to have a big setback, and have to claw back from that, but it might happen anyway, since I wasn't going to wait around, myself. (I haven't played much recently, but intend to get back into it today.)

Thanks for the info!
***

Re. Supply Depots, I'm still wondering about the gameplay with that. America was just given Greenland and Iceland as national possessions. I can rebase ships and planes in Iceland, since it has an air base and naval base, but I can't send troops to defend it, because my transports don't have that kind of range.

I was going to build a naval base on Greenland and rebase my transport ships there. Then, they could pick up troops from Boston and take them to Iceland (at least, I'm guessing that both would be in range, if barely).

However, I can't build a naval base or air base on Greenland, because there's no supply to it. I created a supply convoy, but it won't run, because there's no demand at Greenland. But I can't rebase planes or ships there to create demand, because there's no air or naval base. It seems like a Catch 22.

If I could just create a supply depot, and specify the amount of supplies and/or oil, then my supply convoy would run and I'd have no problem. But as far as I can tell, I can't do that. The only possible solution, I guess, is to drop off infantry on Greenland. Then, maybe, that would create a demand for supplies, causing the supply convoy to run, thus allowing me to build a naval base. But it seems like an awkward way to do it.

I keep thinking I'm missing something, but if so, I can't figure it out.

That's exactly it. Putting troops on Greenland will cause the convoy AI to ship supplies there. Then you can build things there. As for getting your troops there in the first place...

(I'm also discovering that, sometimes, my ships have far more range than they should have - like three times as much. But I can't tell why. I've only seen this in the Pacific, and only occasionally even there, so I don't know what's going on.)

You're right again, and that, I think, is the solution to your issue of being unable to reach Greenland. I think what you're referring to is the increased range for Transports when moving troops. This only applies to Transports on the "Sea Transport" mission. Their range is tripled, from 3000 km to 9000 km. At least, this is how it is in my version of the game. Reaching both Greenland and Iceland is not a problem for the US with 9000 km range, provided the territory you're moving to belongs to you. This can't be done for amphibious assaults on enemy territory.

Hope this helps!

[Commander666]

... but convoys can be one of the more confusing parts of the game.

I believe that the manual is indeed wrong. It is a pity - especially when the game got its "new multiple depot management system" in Arsenal of Democracy. No, I can't explain how it works except units automatically draw their supply from the closest depot. However, none of the supply trace refinements achieved in AoD apply to convoys. Every convoy still needs to start from a port that has an uninterrupted land route to your capital. So, there is no setting up intermediate supply outposts like Hawaii.

I have found the auto-convoy system to be one of the worst auto features in the game, imo. Yes, it doesn't send oil to your newly transferred aircraft in any logistically adept manner; you cannot pre-stock depots and build them up as you know you will need; it leaves tons of supplies and oil on islands you have long vacated and will never return to thereby wasting them; it clutters the convoy listing with a most unorganized presentation of convoy routes imaginable; it causes the daily resource in-flow to bounce around so much one cannot even figure out what area of resource excess one really has to safely make new trades; and the daily supplies building is jumping around so much one is forced to let the IC sliders go auto too... and it does all this poor performance by using far more convoys than are really required if you do it manually! On auto-convoy I always needing to build more convoys as indicated by the red routes. But switching to manual I discover I have dozens of unused convoy flotillas and so can build appropriately for that need.

Consequently, I always manually manage both convoys and IC slider settings. I start by eliminating all convoy routes and rebuilding them listed logically. My daily incoming resources, supply building, and outgoing oil/supplies via convoys are rock solid figures, day after day until I create a change. I can "stock up" outposts as much as I want. Whole fleets live off no-longer-used island depots until all is depleted and so removing that island from the depot list - thereby keeping my list short.

The downside is that one needs to build up the convoy list. Also - because the system does not permit rearranging the list like one can move orders up or down in the production queue - a mis-calculation and need to return to using an earlier removed depot will result in the convoy for that depot only adding at the bottom of the convoy list. But the depot reappears in its old listing order, thereby causing a mis-match between the convoy list and the list of depots. While managing convoys manually really is not that difficult, it is impossible if faced with a mis-match in the two lists because frequently one needs to compare the convoy to its depot; AND with a long list – it becomes too scrambled to manage when the items do not match all the way down both lists. When that happens, I generally rebuild the whole list which can be problematic in the middle of a war.

However, the checking of a properly set up convoy and matching depot lists is not difficult. It does not even need to be done daily. Generally, once things get steady, most routes can be left as is. Other routes - where heavy fighting is happening and more forces are entering the area to create a greater supply draw – may need looking at daily or every second day to assure that more convoys are added so the depot never suffers temporary “out-of-supply”.

Finally, the greatest error with the auto system is that it prioritizes the transportation of resources to your capital instead of sending bullets, oil and food to your fighting troops. Consequently, if you capture a capital you can guarantee you will experience severe supply problems as most of your available convoys will switch from supplying your forces to removing the captured resources. How handy!

[Commander666]

Forgot to mention that certain countries like Japan can gain significant advantages by maual convoy management. In 1936, after removing all the garrisons from Japan's many islands (better put in Korea anyway to assist the coming war there) Japan can exist for several months with greatly decreased ICs going into supplies by simply creating resource convoys that move the island supplies to the capital. If giving zero IC to supply building, it takes nearly two months before Japan will need to build supplies by just existing on its island depots. That IC saving for 2 months is very significant to increased unit production that is possible to achieve.

[WCG]

I think what you're referring to is the increased range for Transports when moving troops. This only applies to Transports on the "Sea Transport" mission. Their range is tripled, from 3000 km to 9000 km.

Oh, OK. That explains it. I couldn't figure out what was going on.

I would always pick a ship - any ship - at a port, so I could tell the distance to another province. After all, each of my fleets has a clear range. But sometimes, when I got around to moving ships, I'd see three times the range they were supposed to have, and I couldn't figure out what was going on. So thanks for the explanation!

I always manually manage both convoys and IC slider settings.

I don't know. That might be too much micromanagement for me. I was managing the IC slider settings manually, but it's been pretty nice to set it to automatic (even though I don't like the way the AI does it, at least some of the time).

And how can you tell how many convoy ships you need?

But maybe it would make sense for some countries (like Japan, as you say). The United States has such an abundance of resources that it might not be worth it for me.

Still, I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for the info!