The christmast modmod to DW post

[pirro]

Am I the only one who thinks that we should eliminate things like the framed event or the whole pirates in the mediterranean thingie?

[boies00]

Personnaly I like the Mediterranean Pirates but I think it could be tweaked to be less intrusive. As for the framed event, I think it should stay as it the signature event of the MM mod, but it could certainly be toned down as well. I don't mind receiving this event if I have high infamy and on a world conquest, but receiving it when you're a peaceful nation is just wrong.

I also think missions should be allowed, but I don't remember if they are available or not in the Christmas modmod -- it's been a while since I played EUIII, especially on HTTT but I remember that I modded them in again when I was playing MMU vanilla.

[pirro]

Pirates in general make little to no sense in MMU... I mean, even the biggest shithole with coast has to be prepared to be protected against pirates.. and even if you waste a crap-load of gold in provincial decisions to stop their attacks... they are still freaking attacking!

[boies00]

Well as I said it could be surely tweaked so that pirates attack more often if you have monasteries in a province, if it's your capital, have a trade centeretc. And investment for pirates protection should be less costly, especially if you have deserted provinces you should be attacked so often.

Anyway, before debatting such trivial matters as pirates and the framed event, let see if there are people skilled enough in modding interested to work on the project...

[TheLoneTaco]

the problem isn't that there are pirates, it's that the events fire constantly. a single yearly event that adjusts all of your provinces' piracy levels would be much better (see Death and Taxes administrative efficiency event for a similar example)

[eliphas8]

I would recomend getting rid of Framed but keeping the Barbary pirates (but changing it up a bit so they are less annoying and are less of a nuisance). They could be fun if you played it right and where rich enough. The above suggestion about making it one event and also having it so that the defences would matter.

[SerialCereal]

The pirates served an essential purpose though, moving power away from the medditeranean.

[eliphas8]

The pirates served an essential purpose though, moving power away from the medditeranean.

No, other things already did that. This just made being on the mediteranian terrible and unfun. That and this being the reason is just unhistorical. The reason the mediteranian ceased its importance was because it was overshadowed by sea trade routes past the cape that bypassed it in a very critical way. If you wanted to move power you would create hellish trade deficiencies that mediteranian countries had to deal with.

[SerialCereal]

Well why doesn't someone run a test game after removing all Barbary Pirate events and see how the outcome differs to that with one in?

[binTravkin]

To the OP and the involved:
1. Let's not discuss "removal" or "adding" of anything. It's no use. If somebody makes a full 1:1 port to DW, THEN you can start discussing and maybe making your own modmods.

2. Can somebody (OP?) list in broad terms what needs to be done (the absolute minimum) in order to make a 1:1 port of Latest MMtM to DW?

[boies00]

2. Can somebody (OP?) list in broad terms what needs to be done (the absolute minimum) in order to make a 1:1 port of Latest MMtM to DW?

1 - Make an inventory of all MMtM modules and exclusive events
2 - Merge the DW version of SRI, ATAGE and Dei Gratia
3 - Amend the map to includes Japan Daymos and other provinces as per Magna Mundi
4 - Amend provinces and countries files to includes extra information from MMtM (such as starting ideas)
5 - Adapt the Japan part of the mod to fit DW
6 - Adapt the Building part of the mod to fit DW
7 - Add remaining modules & events
8 - Balance the game

[binTravkin]

Thanks!
Sorry, I don't have DW, so some questions may seem uninformed.

1.
Can this be done automatically by scanning the files and registering event IDs/Titles?
I mean theoretically.
One could parse the event files using regexp resulting in a database with event ids and names, but would this suffice?

2.
Ok, let's list the things that need to be checked in these (just speculating below):
- map references (province IDs) ?
- global flag references ?
- ?

3. & 4.
In regards to map - I guess DW map is different from HttT?
And MM is different from vanilla HttT too?
What would be the minimum plan?
Just import the map or is that not an option?
If it is an option, what would be the drawbacks (any information lost that exists on DW map, but not on MM map?)

5.
I guess this is about Daimyo/Shogin mechanism in Japan, means the same applies to Mandate Of Heaven mechanism in China.
Can we just disable some of DW if it makes same/better sense to use MM's implementation?
I mean as an "absolute minimum" and then rework+enable later in v0.2 or whenever it's ready.

6.
Could the minimum plan just use straight transfer and merge the "new way of buildings" later in v0.2?

7.
Is this a reference to 1.?
Would events need to be overwritten?
I understand there are references to province IDs, but what else?
Can the parts that need to be overwritten be done so "en masse" (using the replace function + minimal manual work)?
This would seem to be case to most IDs and flags.

8.
This is like 0.2 stuff, one can except that "absolute minimum" port would be not so good at the beginning, but still an achievement on it's own.

[boies00]

1.
Can this be done automatically by scanning the files and registering event IDs/Titles?
I mean theoretically.
One could parse the event files using regexp resulting in a database with event ids and names, but would this suffice?

Whats needed here is a group effort -- just to be sure we don't forget anything. We do a simple list of what's included in MM. Most modules have clear names and I don't think we'll have to closely inspect every file. However, there's probably some exclusive event and we don't want to miss them.

2.
Ok, let's list the things that need to be checked in these (just speculating below):
- map references (province IDs) ?
- global flag references ?
- ?

Yes. You take SRI as you main source, then merge it with Dei Gratia, file by file, adding and modifying the code. That's a big job because you have to decided which values you keep -- the one in Dei Gratia or the one in SRI. You must compare with MMtM and Vanilla for help.

Then, when you do the same with ATAGE, but you must also change every government type line in the combined SRI/Dei Gratia so you have all ranks that fits the ATAGE system

ex.: goverment = despotic_monarchy becomes

OR = {government = despotic_monarchy_lowest
government = despotic_monarchy_lower
government = despotic_monarchy
government = despotic_monarchy_upper}

When all is done we have about 75% of the work done

3. & 4.
In regards to map - I guess DW map is different from HttT?
And MM is different from vanilla HttT too?
What would be the minimum plan?
Just import the map or is that not an option?
If it is an option, what would be the drawbacks (any information lost that exists on DW map, but not on MM map?)

We use SRI as basis for the map since it has already been updated for DW, then the DW provinces elsewhere as a guide, and MMtM for Japan.

Same thing for the countries and provinces files. SRI as a basis, then we add the extra files info from MMtM.

5.
I guess this is about Daimyo/Shogin mechanism in Japan, means the same applies to Mandate Of Heaven mechanism in China.
Can we just disable some of DW if it makes same/better sense to use MM's implementation?
I mean as an "absolute minimum" and then rework+enable later in v0.2 or whenever it's ready.

Either try to adapt MMtM version, or replace the original work by Chatnoir excellent Japan mod if he allows it.

6.
Could the minimum plan just use straight transfer and merge the "new way of buildings" later in v0.2?

We could once again just adapt or discard it entirely for now. DW took a lot of inspiration from MM when they did it.

7.
Is this a reference to 1.?
Would events need to be overwritten?
I understand there are references to province IDs, but what else?
Can the parts that need to be overwritten be done so "en masse" (using the replace function + minimal manual work)?
This would seem to be case to most IDs and flags.

Yes, you add back the modules and events listed in #1 file by file. In fact, it's the same process than #2, but on a smaller scale.

8.
This is like 0.2 stuff, one can except that "absolute minimum" port would be not so good at the beginning, but still an achievement on it's own.

You should probably have 90% of what the MMtM experience was, but it will have to be tweaked so that the game provides plausible results.

[pirro]

So... more or less... who is IN, right no, aside from me and, perhaps, boeis00? To start to organise the job between everyone interested by other means...

[TheLoneTaco]

So... more or less... who is IN, right no, aside from me and, perhaps, boeis00? To start to organise the job between everyone interested by other means...

I am down for 1 to 3 hours/week of rudimentary coding. I have experience making small changes to EU3 code but certainly know how to read C++. Can't help with map or some more sophisticated problems.

[boies00]

I would certainly be able to help integrate the small modules, but I am in no way able to do the map or merge the first three mods.

So, to be started, we now need somebody with a good experience in EUIII modding to take a few hours to merge SRI / Dei Gratia / ATAGE.

I can provide the latest version of SRI, and the two other mods are available in these forums.

[pirro]

I would certainly be able to help integrate the small modules, but I am in no way able to do the map or merge the first three mods.

So, to be started, we now need somebody with a good experience in EUIII modding to take a few hours to merge SRI / Dei Gratia / ATAGE.

I can provide the latest version of SRI, and the two other mods are available in these forums.

That's more or less already merged here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...m-cogitationis

[boies00]

It could be a good alternative, and it would be much easier to mod than starting over.

But there's a lot of stuff not in MM in there. So we'll have to remove it. In the end, it could prove as much trouble as starting over.

Does anybody knows if it includes the latest published version of SRI and the corrections made to Dei Gratia last year by Dharper?

[pirro]

It could be a good alternative, and it would be much easier to mod than starting over.

But there's a lot of stuff not in MM in there. So we'll have to remove it. In the end, it could prove as much trouble as starting over.

Does anybody knows if it includes the latest published version of SRI and the corrections made to Dei Gratia last year by Dharper?

That mod hasn't been upgraded since october 2011 so... don't think so

[Keanon]

About the map, the hardest thing will be the positions, the rest I know I could personally do in a rather short time.