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Thread: Just started playing and I had some questions.

  1. #1

    Just started playing and I had some questions.

    I couldn't find answers in the tutorials, manual, or FAQ so I thought I could post here.

    1. My biggest question is how material production affects your country other than money. If I have a lot of coal producing provinces is it better to build factories that require coal? The game seems to imply that it doesn't matter because it all get sold imediatly, this seems odd to me. Another example if I have a clothing factory would a luxury clothing factory in the same area be more efficient? If yes what are the details of this?

    2. The way craftsmen get hired in factories is so weird and random are their any details on the way they are assigned? Does their need to be a certain ratio on craftsmen to clerks?

    3. If I raise the pay of teachers will I lose a lot of burecrats from them switching to teachers or will the bureaucratic pops stay stable?

    4. What does stockpile effect? My people wont starve if I lower it right? Will my military disband or something? In other ways what affect does this have on the economy? Should I never lower it?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Captain MondoPotato's Avatar
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    I'll try and help. I've played the hell out of this game, but for all the hundreds of hours in, there's a lot I still don't really 100% know how it happens. This is what I think, so take it as that, and if I'm way off base hopefully someone smarter can fill in the blanks.

    1.) You are correct in thinking all the RGO outputs get sold immediately. Where they get sold (Local or World Market) is what you're looking for. Your factories will buy from your local stockpile before the world market, so if you have a province that generates loads of coal, you can build factories and they'll use that as their primary source, then move on to purchasing from the world market. For the clothing/luxury clothing deal, it should behave in the same way.

    Things that will alter this are whether or not you're sphered/vassalized. In those cases, your overlord gets first crack at your produce. If they are soaking up all your coal, then even if you have loads of coal produce, you aren't actually seeing any of it and it's all going to them. In that case, you'll be buying from the world market stockpile. The world market purchasing order is based on your rank, so the higher rank countries get first dibs.

    2.) From the wiki:

    Factory production is calculated as follows: Production = Factory Size * Base Production * Throughput * Output Efficiency

    Throughput = Number of Craftsmen / (Factory Size * 10000) + Factory Throughput Techs + Infrastructure (state average)

    Output Efficiency = 1.0 + Number of Clerks / (Factory Size * 10000) + Factory Efficiency Techs + Economic Policy Modifier

    So it looks like clerks primarily affect the output efficiency of a factory, whereas craftsmen are key in the throughput. To find out the best possible ratio, you'd have to do the math, taking into account different tech levels and economic policies.

    As far as craftsmen hiring being random... for all I know it is. I'm sure their is an algorithm used to determine where they go, but I'm not sure what it is.

    3.) Yes, potentially. If you raise the pay of teachers(clergy), and it becomes a more desirable profession than bureaucrats, they will change. There are a number of other factors in pop promotion though, like if there is work available, literacy, reforms, and so on. You can see all these in the pop settings. Check out the clergy info here: http://www.paradoxian.org/vicky2wiki/Clergymen

    Scroll down to promote_to and you'll see all the conditions

    4.) The stockpile just gives you a surplus of goods that you can use. It can either be consumed by your pops or factories. Stockpiling arms and ammunition before a war, for instance, can keep your military well supplied if you happen to start losing a lot of money during the war and can no longer afford to purchase military supplies from the world market (helpful if you're not a great power). Without the stockpile, your troops fighting capabilities will plummet.

    It also doesn't hurt to try and stockpile goods when their price is really low, so you don't have to pay a premium when the price goes up. Look at the market screen to see the fluctuation of some goods costs. It never hurts to have a stockpile of wine, food, and other military building necessities.

  3. #3
    Wow thanks I didn't expect a response so quick thank you. Are things cheaper on the national market or is it just for getting dibs on the resources? The thing I am confused with the factories was I had a thousand free craftsmen and they wouldn't work in the factory, I set the national focus to clerks though and they all seemed to be fine after that. So is their even a point to the stockpile bar then? That is the biggest expense but I am afraid of lowering it. This game is very good but i feel a lot of the game mechanics are hidden or not well enough explained.

  4. #4
    National market is just for getting dibs.

    The unemployed craftsmen were probably fired- if a factory isn't profitable they will fire workers. The clerks might have made the factory profitable again (they raise production efficiency) or the price of inputs/outputs could have changed.

    Stockpiles provides the material for your military and your purchases (railroads, naval bases, forts). If you are only paying for the military, you can lower your stockpile without penalty during peace, although it will take time to reach max organization when you go to war. Minor wars can be fought with a low stockpile, but you should use full when taking on a major power.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SDSkinner View Post
    Minor wars can be fought with a low stockpile, but you should use full when taking on a major power.
    I wouldn't do that. Even an unciv can route your regiments if your ORG is too low.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal bbasgen's Avatar
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    I don't understand the concept of the national stockpile. I also don't understand the little icon that let's your POPs buy from the stockpile.
    1. If your POPs can't buy from the stockpile (e.g. that button isn't pressed) what is it used for? Just military supplies?
    2. If so, is it correct conceptually to say that the national stockpile is essentially one of two forms of military spending: on the one hand you have to supply your military, on the other hand you have to pay your soldier & officer POPs?
    3. If so, what effect does it have when your stockpile is at 100% versus 50%?
    4. What does it mean when POPs *can* buy from the national stockpile? Why is that advantageous? E.g. how is it any better than buying from the world market?
    5. If tariffs are above 0%, I can see the national stockpile as a way to work around tariffs and essentially make them invalid. On the other hand, if you have negative tariffs buying from the national stockpile could mean your POPs are paying more than they should?
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  7. #7
    Captain MondoPotato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbasgen
    ...snip...
    1.) More or less. Military and building supplies.

    2.) Yeah, you can think of it that way. Military spending is a two part process as you describe. Funding the military is in part paying wages to maintain a core group of soldiers and officers. To be functional however, those soldiers and officers need guns, ammunition, etc. That's where the stockpiles come in.

    3.) If you reduce your stockpile, it means you'll be buying less of the needed goods (If they are available in the first place). It'll save you money, but it also means factories or military units that need those supplies won't be getting them. The slider determines what is spent on purchasing from the world market. If you reduce that, you should probably have a stockpile of goods to compensate, otherwise you could run into trouble.

    4.) You allow pops to buy from the stockpile mainly in times of shortages on their needs. If there isn't enough wine to make your pops happy from the world market each day, stockpile it and sell it to them internally while you figure out a better/cheaper alternative to keep them well fed. Basically, allowing pops to buy from the stockpile takes them off the world market.

    5.) True on both accounts. The tariff slider only affects purchases that are made by your pops/factories on the world market. It won't alter the internal market. However, it is a precarious balance and tricky to manage or min/max for your highest gain. In the real world, the same game on tariff vs. national store is played out daily. If you're interested in it (nobody in their right mind should be) read up on the US 1816 and 1824 Tariffs (called the American System) to fight cheap British exported iron and textile goods. It's horribly uninteresting, but relevant. It does start to get interesting around the 1828 "Tariff of Ambominations", mind you.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bbasgen View Post
    Your 4 questions,
    1. Yes if your pops can't buy from the national stockpile obviously is used only for your military and building forts, naval bases and railroad.


    2. Yes you can perceive it one of the 2 aspects of paying your military. First is their wages and second is the stockpile-supplies the military uses.


    3.What is important about the National Stockpile is that affects your troops ORGANISATION directly(incase you haven't stockpiled the military goods in it). Once you put national stockpile on 50%-assuming you didn't stockpile any ammunitions,arms,artillery etc. your troops organisation will NOT be able to go above 50%-and organisation is a vital modifier for military battles-the more organisation you have the more of your troops can die and fight-if you have 0 organisation u lose the battle, to depict this in another way, if you have 0 national stockpile your troops don't have food ammo or anything and they can't fight of course= 0 ORGANISATION.
    If you have stockpiled max of all those needed goods, and you put national stockpile funding on 0, it will deduct from what u've stockpiled of course until you run out of it depending how much are ur troops spending each day.


    4. It means what it says. Use your common sense. It would be advantageous in a few instances, like when you don't need some good stockpiled anymore and you let your POPs buy from it. You don't keep the unneeded good anymore, and you get money in your national treasury. It's not more advantageous than buying from the world market, assuming your tarrifs are on 0%.


    5. I'm not sure that would be a way to work around tariffs since the game I asssume would treat your country as a foreign POP if you're buying goods from some other country. If that's not the case-it is a way to work around them-partially, which would IMHO be a bug that needs to be fixed. If you'd have negative tariffs that won't affect your pops since they'd buy from their internal market and not the world market. If you bought the goods from a world market to your nat. stockpile and then go sell them to your POPs-it'd be the same - I believe the game treats your national stockpile just as any foreign POP another country would sell to.

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