MEIOU vs Death and Taxes

[PdoxNewbie]

No one has answered the original question I've not played D&T yet.

A great stickied thread would be, how do ALL of these mods stack up? You could list all the mods in columns and a bunch of factors in rows. For example...

...................................Mod A.........Mod B
Alternative Scenarios........Y..............N
Start Date......................1356.........1399
New Events....................500+..........1000+
Difficulty......................Medium.........Har d
Latest Version...........7/2/12.............4/3/11
Compatible with...........DW..................DW
Special Features...........Different ideas, historical map.........etc

Good idea.

[TheLoneTaco]

Good idea.

Thanks. I started looking at gigau's mod list sticky and realized that doing it myself would take a TON of work.

Then I thought, maybe what EU3 really need is two massive mods to do the AGC/EEP thing and just merge. Like, MCP vs. MiscMods? They seem so similar. So many of these large mods seem like they could work well if the two teams just merged together. In many cases I just don't see big philosophical differences, which makes choosing mods so difficult. At least with Manga Mundi, you really knew it was very different and not for everyone (or definitely for you). But perhaps I am missing the subtlety of other mods differences

[lukew]

Good idea.

The master mod list already does this (sort of).

Thanks. I started looking at gigau's mod list sticky and realized that doing it myself would take a TON of work.

Then I thought, maybe what EU3 really need is two massive mods to do the AGC/EEP thing and just merge. Like, MCP vs. MiscMods? They seem so similar. So many of these large mods seem like they could work well if the two teams just merged together. In many cases I just don't see big philosophical differences, which makes choosing mods so difficult. At least with Manga Mundi, you really knew it was very different and not for everyone (or definitely for you). But perhaps I am missing the subtlety of other mods differences

MCP is like Miscmods? Since when?

[TheLoneTaco]

The master mod list already does this (sort of).



MCP is like Miscmods? Since when?

See, this is what I mean. Just looking at the first post in the main mod thread, they seem SO similar to me - just collections of other, smaller mods. Hell, MCP even includes an old version of MiscMods! But I don't have time to play multiple games for each mod to really grasp how each is different in meaningful ways. Like, I don't really care whether Flanders starts independent of Burgundy in 1356 (as in MEIOU) or not (as in D&T) - that won't affect the game all the much. But I do care whether there is an Administrative Efficiency system that is very important (MM), present (MEIOU), or non-existent (??? MiscMods maybe?). Unless I played hours of each, I would have no idea just how important the AE system is in each mod. For example, in MM you might spend a century desperately trying to improve your government type just to avoid the penalties while in MEIOU you just need to slightly slow your rate of growth.

[PdoxNewbie]

D&T also has administrative efficiency.

[Rabid]

There's a huge number of mods with very similar aims, for whatever reason the modding scene for EU3 has always been extremely fractured and mods with more than 1 or 2 developers are very rare which leads to a lot of good mods getting dropped (or just have very infrequent updates) because of RL issues. It probably doesn't help that all the mods with subforums are years out of date. Then you add in the constant beta patches and you end up with a big mess -.-

[Khwarezm]

I dont really like both mods, simply because they are too large and that causes the game phase to become way too slow. It takes 10 minutes to pass one year and I dont want to wait 8 hours before my provinces get cored. Both mods would be really awesome if the game phase would be faster.
The game is EUROPA universalis anyway, so it can be a nice idea to completely remove the americas, asia and africa from the game to make the game faster and create a "real" europa universalis.

[Anderan]

I dont really like both mods, simply because they are too large and that causes the game phase to become way too slow. It takes 10 minutes to pass one year and I dont want to wait 8 hours before my provinces get cored. Both mods would be really awesome if the game phase would be faster.
The game is EUROPA universalis anyway, so it can be a nice idea to completely remove the americas, asia and africa from the game to make the game faster and create a "real" europa universalis.

The game is more about simulating an Era rather than just one area though. If you want a smaller map, I'd suggest trying Crusader Kings 1 or 2. The map only includes Europe and North Africa.

[EU3NOOB]

I dont really like both mods, simply because they are too large and that causes the game phase to become way too slow. 1) It takes 10 minutes to pass one year and I dont want to wait 8 hours before my provinces get cored. Both mods would be really awesome if the game phase would be faster.
2)The game is EUROPA universalis anyway, so it can be a nice idea to completely remove the americas, asia and africa from the game to make the game faster and create a "real" europa universalis.

1) I never have this problem with D&T. On the contrary, it much smoother and less jerky than vanilla.

2) You're just plain wrong here. It's Europa UNIVERSALIS for a reason. This is when Europe gets out of the middle ages and goes on to dominate the WORLD. Thus the term UNIVERSALIS.

[George LeS]

1) I never have this problem with D&T. On the contrary, it much smoother and less jerky than vanilla.

2) You're just plain wrong here. It's Europa UNIVERSALIS for a reason. This is when Europe gets out of the middle ages and goes on to dominate the WORLD. Thus the term UNIVERSALIS.

Yes. Although it's not widely known, a few European countries did try to extend their power to the rest of the world, during this period. Courland did, Sweden actually colonized in what is now Delaware. Though they didn't settle there, the Portuguese had fishing lodges in Labrador and Newfoundland. Even isolationist Spain, IIRC, had a colony in the Philippines. So there was a European involvement overseas, if only on a small scale.

[ZomgK3tchup]

Both are pretty good mods, but I like modding my mods so I can add my own personal challenges and stuff. That said, D&T is an absolute mess under the hood whereas MEIOU is a lot nicer and more organized. Though D&T is a lot more similar to vanilla, so it's easier to play with the mechanics since I'm more familiar with them.

Oh, and D&T with the 2gig patch that's linked in the MEIOU download thread will make your game faster than vanilla. Seriously, it's almost scary how fast time can go by.

[pirro]

Yes. Although it's not widely known, a few European countries did try to extend their power to the rest of the world, during this period. Courland did, Sweden actually colonized in what is now Delaware. Though they didn't settle there, the Portuguese had fishing lodges in Labrador and Newfoundland. Even isolationist Spain, IIRC, had a colony in the Philippines. So there was a European involvement overseas, if only on a small scale.

USA stole the Philippines from Spain in 1898... Indeed, their are named after Felipe II...

[George LeS]

USA stole the Philippines from Spain in 1898... Indeed, their are named after Felipe II...

Uh, no. It was conquest, just like Granada in 1492.

[pirro]

Uh, no. It was conquest, just like Granada in 1492.

"Conquest"... You blew up your own battleship to have a proper CB to stole our last colonies. And then you invaded them, our fleet... well, I prefer to forget how crappy our admirals were, and then you conquered them, no doubt. But you conquered them for the hell of it

[lukew]

Uh, no. It was conquest, just like Granada in 1492.

Yeah because the Philippines were a comparable distance to the US as Granada was to Spain?

"Conquest"... You blew up your own battleship to have a proper CB to stole our last colonies. And then you invaded them, our fleet... well, I prefer to forget how crappy our admirals were, and then you conquered them, no doubt. But you conquered them for the hell of it

Don't worry, they took most of North America from us ^^ (well the French did anyway)

[Sudertum]

USA stole the Philippines from Spain in 1898... Indeed, their are named after Felipe II...

It was a weird treaty USA gained Puerto Rico and Guam from Spain for winning the war, but Philippines were given to US for 20 million USD.

[lukew]

It was a weird treaty USA gained Puerto Rico and Guam from Spain for winning the war, but Philippines were given to US for 20 million USD.

The treaty of Paris was fairly strange.

[George LeS]

OK, the Philippines were a long way from the USA. Like Mexico, Peru, and the Philippines themselves, from Spain. Or India from Britain. This is one kettle which doesn't mind admitting it's blackness, but I will point out the similarity with the kettles which throw the charge at us.

And there is absolutely no ground for believing that the US blew up the Maine. It's the sort of thing conspiracy buffs love, but its hogwash. Nor is there evidence that the Spanish did it. Perhaps you have to be a naval buff to realize this, but accidental explosions were common in that era. Not just Maine, but Vanguard, Bulwark, Da Vinci, Liberte, Suffren, probably Karlsruhe.

What is it the Philippinos themselves said? "We spent 400 years in a convent, then 40 years in a brothel."

And no, lukew, we did take it. France helped, no doubt, but we did win Saratoga all by our lonesome selves. (OK, some help from Britain.) And of course, how much of the part you kept, had you just taken from France?

[lukew]

OK, the Philippines were a long way from the USA. Like Mexico, Peru, and the Philippines themselves, from Spain. Or India from Britain. This is one kettle which doesn't mind admitting it's blackness, but I will point out the similarity with the kettles which throw the charge at us.

And there is absolutely no ground for believing that the US blew up the Maine. It's the sort of thing conspiracy buffs love, but its hogwash. Nor is there evidence that the Spanish did it. Perhaps you have to be a naval buff to realize this, but accidental explosions were common in that era. Not just Maine, but Vanguard, Bulwark, Da Vinci, Liberte, Suffren, probably Karlsruhe.

What is it the Philippinos themselves said? "We spent 400 years in a convent, then 40 years in a brothel."

And no, lukew, we did take it. France helped, no doubt, but we did win Saratoga all by our lonesome selves. (OK, some help from Britain.) And of course, how much of the part you kept, had you just taken from France?

1. I know, I just like trolling Americans.

2. Washington pretty much wandered round the nation being continually defeated before the French sent assistance in 1778.

PS All that delicious North American wasteland, how helpful for us

PPS Saratoga is one of a very small number of cases where it's also notable we were outnumbered 2.5:1 (by the defeat in the third battle)

PPPS The Americans ALSO had the high ground

[George LeS]

1. I know, I just like trolling Americans.

2. Washington pretty much wandered round the nation being continually defeated before the French sent assistance in 1778.

PS All that delicious North American wasteland, how helpful for us

PPS Saratoga is one of a very small number of cases where it's also notable we were outnumbered 2.5:1 (by the defeat in the third battle)

PPPS The Americans ALSO had the high ground

-I know. Yes, we indulge in power politics. Where did we learn it? At our mother's knee, (perfidious) Mom.

-Washington faced the problem of creating an army from a rabble, with no central government. The Long Island victories were nothing more than large scale versions of the Boston massacre. Nevertheless, he did win a few in N Jersey.

-Well, you did take it from France, didn't you. IMO, its the undiscussed cause of our revolution. We'd have been much more willing to pay higher taxes with an Absolutist Catholic nation next door. But once that was no longer a threat, well, greed doesn't always pay....

-Since when is tactis the only issue in a battle? Isn't superior strategy a factor? The British Saratoga campaign is a sort of Dien Ben Phu, Mark I.