Into the Future?

[VitaminK]

I am curious to see what the devs plan on doing for late/end game players. I haven't really seen anything, posts or announcements, so if I missed it please excuse this and direct me there.

Love the game but once you have built everything and gotten all or most of the skills what is there to do? It pretty much seems like this game is just a dead end. Once you have built and/or acquired everything there is little if not nothing to do... even if you have a town going, what is going to keep you playing?

Thoughts, comments?

[Droj]

Witchcraft & witchhunting was one of the things I heard to be done last.


Other than that it's sandbox, so whatever players make of it. Take a look at well known sandbox mmos for examples.

[VitaminK]

Witchcraft and witch hunting could be interesting...


As far as other sandbox mmo's go, those happen to have a LOT more content. I know this is Beta so I'm not being too critical just thought I'd ask.

Personally I'm just trying to think on what they could add or expand upon...

[alexispres]

Late game is politics, is that difficult to see?

[Tonkyhonk]

Witchcraft & witchhunting was one of the things I heard to be done last.

yes, devs said witchcraft was not coming any time soon.
and here is my imagination from what i understand, but...

you can always start witch-hunting whenever you want. all it takes is some rumors.
witchcraft doesnt need to be announced if indeed it is only for a very few high leveled players with certain conditions as devs said. it will be unlocked to only those who happen to meet the criteria. that way, people start speculating and the "real" witch hunt can start happening. here is me hoping that devs or paradox staff or even wiki never ruin the fun by revealing "how to be a witch" stuff.

[villagegirl]

what people tend to forget is the purity system, I dont mean to keep bringing it up but if its anything like H&H thats enough late game right there. Eventually you hit a wall and cant progress without better purity items.

[VitaminK]

what people tend to forget is the purity system, I dont mean to keep bringing it up but if its anything like H&H thats enough late game right there. Eventually you hit a wall and cant progress without better purity items.

The purity system is not going to keep you playing though...

I'm talking about actual content, features, etc.

[villagegirl]

The purity system is not going to keep you playing though...

I'm talking about actual content, features, etc.

well thats what im looking forward too, getting to that point where you get your Stocks and Cultivars to 10000, and are getting Purity 50 or 60 crops(Not sure if thats how its gonna work or not). But im pretty sure thats what the games essentially about. Building a initial settlement, and then getting better at what you do, then getting awesome items. and trading/selling them. But to get to that point im hoping would take months, if not a year or more.

[staxjax]

The purity system is not going to keep you playing though...

I'm talking about actual content, features, etc.

Yeah, it will. Alot of people, me included, strive to improve the quality (purity) of the items they can craft. After all this is 'the crafting mmo' so essentially that is what the game is all about, especially in the end game. The other major end game component is politics+pvp , but if you don't give a shit about either of those, then crafting (aka quality grind) is where it's at. Needless to say, without a proper quality improvement system I haven't been playing nearly as much as I'd like to.

[TotalyMoo]

Moving to gameplay discussions.

[VitaminK]

I'm all for improving purity system, since the main point of this game is crafting I just also feel like there should be more to craft / built along with purity. Also other features that give diversity to what you must do in order to obtain certain things (hunting, farming, mining, etc)

[Boulderdash]

First off, I have only been in the beta for a couple of days, so I have no experience in the end game yet. But I'd like to give my two cents as well.

Note: it could well be that described subjects in the text below are already implemented.


There are multiple design levels for progress in the game / end game.

Level 1 - Skill tree
Level 2 - Items
Level 3 - Resources

Level 1 - Skill tree
The skill tree is fairly static in design. It is very hard to change the skill tree in its center because of the interdependency between the skills. However is it quite possible to add extra top branches to expand the end game experience or add extra low-level or mid-level branches for expansions / updates.

New game concepts (expansions / updates) would likely be added as extra branches starting at low-level / mid-level. Such concepts could be witch crafting and witch hunting (as mentioned in earlier posts). The progress of the game engine (knowledge and technology) could for example add sailing, horse riding, driving (carts) and deep mining.

The new branches and expansion of existing branches for the end game could be added as a progress of time concept. This concept of time needs to be balanced with the planned life time of the game. There could be three ways in doing that:
a - periodical updates as it was done in Asheron's Call I.
b - periodical expansions as it was done in Everquest.
c - cyclic life time as it is done in A Tale in the Desert.

In the a / b variant the sky is the limit (perhaps literally) and is dependent on the time available for the developers per update / expansions. For example: every 6 months the time could be rolled forward for 20 years. This would mean that (starting the game at 1640) after a game life time of 6 years the game would be set at around 1880.
Examples of updates / expansions:
- First Contact (expansion of Native Americans)
- Forming of States (expansion of Community tools)
- War of Independence (expansion of War against AI)
- Railroad (expansion of mobility)
- Industrial Revolution (expansion of productivity)
- Civil War (expansion of War PvP)
If the updates are in a stage like fashion new players have the opportunity to catch up on the munchkin/power players.

In the c variant the design team could choose a certain end period. When a certain mile stone has been reached the game would be reset and restart from scratch.

Both variants could be running next to each other if different servers are used.


Level 2 - Items
New items can be added to any part of the skill tree. For example new cooking recipes or better equipment. These new items could be merged with the time concept. They could not necessarily be added to a new tree (low / mid / high / new) but could also be added to existing trees as time progresses.

New items can also be tiered within an existing branch where as they are interdependent on values of other branches.
For example:
learning the use a new material could add better items to an existing branch. Clothing, Tools.
learning new legal concepts could add better items to an existing branch. Jury options. Sherriff profession. Jails.
learning new transport concepts could add better items to an existing branch. Railroad robbery.

Players should be offered new tools to know which items are new to existing branches so that they won't skip content without knowing.


Level 3 - Resources
This would be the purity system.


I think that the most important part of the end game would be the tools offered to the in game communities (Productive towns, Gangs, Army). All 3 levels should serve that purpose.
Community tools
- Vertical structering. Hierarchal tools
- Horizontal structering. Professions
- Law and punishment tools
- Family (progress after perma-death)


My two cents,
Boulderdash

[Dallane]

Some good ideas boulder, you should make a suggestion post about them.

It still doesn't solve the problem of running out of end game stuff. Once you make everything there is nothing to improve with quality. PvP for us turns into a 8 hour raid with travel times, assaulting walls, resting, and looting. That is also with "terminator"(/roll eyes) characters. Now there isn't a reason other then epeen to pvp. Only real valuables was iron and with walls of braziers iron is like picking mushrooms.

[Boulderdash]

A possible solution
In the old days (read MUDs) people who were running out of end game stuff could apply for a staff function (Wizard). They would have the opportunity to script new functionality. Much like modders nowadays in non-persistent worlds. The modders of Salem could have the tools to construct new areas (in the Darkness) or new content (events).

In the end you would always have players who would have nothing else to do other then to chat with each other. Only the cyclic solution would solve that but then it would be a question of "I have done this before. Do I want to do it again?"

greetz
Boulderdash

[MagicManICT]

Nice thing about MUDs is that they were as much a community project as anything else. Downside was that very few were of a quality to charge a monthly fee or really monetize what was developed. Of course, you can look to a couple of MMOs to see a community developed content again, but you have to be a subscriber to access these features.

To answer your question (which looks a bit rhetorical), A Tale in the Desert has a few hundred players that have stuck with the game for multiple tellings. I've only played the game about six months total, but I've followed it for years (was always too busy playing something else). Each telling the population gets smaller and smaller. It's a good reason to avoid that cyclical game unless that's absolutely what the developers want.* The games that have stayed viable over the years have gone with regular content releases, either monthly/quarterly or major expansions every year or two, and sometimes a bit of both. Even EQ still has tens of thousands of players after 14 years (probably more than that with the move to F2P).

*edit: Ok, there's probably some other major factors in it such as having only a couple of design people (unpaid interns) and programmers (at least one of which is unpaid and does it for the experience and enjoyment) and a completely voluntary GM staff. I'm sure there's some other reasons, too, but those are the ones I've heard complained about.