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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by spiller68 View Post
    nice ideas rylock, but as far as diplomacy is concerened i think we need a ultimateum thing that we can send to a country like give me my core or its war or give me military acces or im gonna invade sort of thing.
    i also think they need to rework the rebel system like maybe throe in a civil war/ war of independece thing in.
    Ditto on this, diplomacy is the biggest weak spot in an otherwise fantastic game. The 19th century was all about complex alliances, balance of power, ultimatums and international conferences to settle world crises, etc. Get those concepts into the game somehow.

    Admittedly this will be a challenge, as it'll be hard to make an AI negotiate intelligently I'll bet, but it's worth a try.

  2. #42
    Field Marshal bbasgen's Avatar
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    POP improvement ideas

    I would like to see POPs the area of focus for the next expansion. Consider: there are entire screens that PI has created and developed that a player can safely ignore for the whole game. How often do we look at individual POPs and pull up the information for them? The primary reason that we don't is because we have no direct and little indirect control over any particular POPs.

    I think POPs are the heart of the franchise. In Vicky, POP splitting was the reason why you intimately knew your POPs, but of course this was a significant micro management problem. So, what do we do for POPs in Vicky 2?
    1. More options to directly influence POP issues and ideologies. For example, a set of generic decisions for all nations, where one decision is to make all POPs more liberal at a monthly rate, but also increase militancy for non-liberal POPs. Each decision could last for 5 years or so. These would in effect be government propaganda campaigns launched through the media, school system, etc.
    2. Taxes should once again effect POP consciousness and not simply promotion/demotion. This would help players have a little more control over POPs.
    3. Allow the player to pick a "favored" POP: this would be a group of people that the state provides special privileges and favors to which has the result of keeping militancy extremely low, consciousness high for that POP, and plays a role in the power and influence of that POP over other POPs. This would be great, for example, in a colonial state to do for your national culture.

    Interplay between POP types: there is so much that could be done here to make it interesting and relevant when you have different POP types within the same state, living as neighbors as it were.
    1. POPs that share culture or religious groups within the same state (say they hold a majority of 90%) will lower both miltancy and consciousness, and assimilation rates will suffer a penalty (outsiders are more likely to be excluded)
    2. POPs that share a state that is diverse in culture and religion will cause them all to have raised consciousness, and increase the militancy only of conservative, nationalistic, or reactionary POPs. Assimilation rates should improve in highly multi-cultural and diverse states.
    3. Class divides could become quite interesting to play with. Imagine a state where the laborers are not getting their life needs met, but the capitalists are getting luxury needs. Talk about making militancy levels explosive! This would also improve the game mechanic that people often follow of no taxes for the rich and tax the hell out of the poor without consequence. Further more, it would give some credence to dampening what can otherwise become an out of control industrialization by capitalists.
    4. From the above, with a favored POP type, this POP could increase promotion rates to its class within the state, increase assimilation rates to its culture and religion, etc. Not without downsides, of course: this favored POP would raise the militancy of others due to the special favors and cronyism they get from the state! This in turn, limits the size such a favored POP can have: once the number is too large, making them favored within the state is unsustainable. Thus, diminishing returns would be necessary such that this is best for colonial states with very small starting favored POPs.

    A few weeks ago, I also posted an idea for developing new ways to handle culture and assimilation:
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  3. #43
    Those sound like some nice ideas bbasgen but it's all too much. It's realistic if you don't really control your pops directly. You are not suppose to. POPs are suppose to act on their own-realistically. Ofcourse, propaganda works, and should be the only way to directly "control" aspects of your POPs and that is already built in. You can already adjust all the aspects that can be used to try and control your POPs indirectly or directly, except that tweaking should be made with the tax-level and the related reactions on the people.

  4. #44
    General Hibernian's Avatar
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    I like the idea of POPs having rivalries against each other. I've suggested before that there should be some level of conflict between the Aristocrat POPs (who represent the Land owning upper class) and the Farmer POPs (who represent the Peasant farmers), since the ownership and control of land was a major issue at this time. Of course conflict between Capitalists and Factory workers also makes sense.

    Another improvement which could be done for POPs would be some system whereby a local subculture can be the Primary culture in a certain area. I'm thinking of situations like Canada and Australia, where British emigrants arriving in Canada should convert to Anglo-Canadian culture, rather then remaining British forever (which makes no sense). I'd also like a more generalised system which would allow immigrants from any culture to be able to become a kind of sub-culture of the primary culture of their new country, so that say Japanese migrants to the US would gradually become a new culture called "Japanese American", which you could then get as an accepted culture under certain circumstances (i.e. they would have to be in the country for a generation or so and the government must not have residency as their citizenship policy).

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ReedemeR View Post
    Those sound like some nice ideas bbasgen but it's all too much. It's realistic if you don't really control your pops directly. You are not suppose to. POPs are suppose to act on their own-realistically. Ofcourse, propaganda works, and should be the only way to directly "control" aspects of your POPs and that is already built in. You can already adjust all the aspects that can be used to try and control your POPs indirectly or directly, except that tweaking should be made with the tax-level and the related reactions on the people.
    I'm gonna have to go with this. Not only is it unrealistic to completely control your pops, but it's also unblievably boring.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    ...our dedicated Beta team [sic] are still busy, gathering up issues for a 2.4 patch...
    We are?


  7. #47
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    If there is going to be an expansion, here are my ideas

    - I would add in factional alliances (aka country blocks) for major and secondary powers (make sure it is highly moddable though, I could see it ending very badly for the mod I am working on, divergences, if you dont!) like hearts of iron, with several levels, such as guarantees of independence, integral (will automatically join if you are attacked) and membership (regular). So WW1 would be represented at the start by an integral alliance between france and russia with russia guaranteeing serbia, with GB being a member. The central powers would be represented by german and austrian integral membership with the ottomans and italians simply being members. Austria attacks serbia, france and russia join, germany joins, italy dishonours the call, the ottomans join in along with GB, and as the war goes on countries shift toward the allies and join in. You would have to factor in things such as influence into the system, and this would go along with a general rework of the system, but remember, moddablity is key! The blocks can be abolished and created by any GP, though, the rest are just regular alliances/vassal stuff

    - A rework of infamy, rather than being one arbitrary number, make is based around a limit to how fast countries can grow with integration into the factional alliance system, if you play as germany, and take all of austria and european russia in one war, a country block of all your former enemies is going to form to beat you back, the ottomans, british, french, italians, americans, and what remains of austria and russia are all going to dogpile to try and reduce you in size.

    -Cores vs claims, enough said, think greater italy, and ottoman europe.

    -Military rework, with trench warfare taking place, and it just not being attack vs defens, planes that do plane stuff, tanks that destroy, so on, the current system works early on, but it makes less and less sense as the game progresses.

    -Moddability, make sure tiggers work, release a list of commands, and other triggers requested by major modders such as rylock and nas. But make sure pop commands work, most of all, especially the culture change command, it would make modding so much easier

    -Fix vassals, nuf said

    -Try to get as good of an Ai as possible, I know its difficult to programme a good ai, but the ai right now can barely manage a country split in two by a body of water

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    No, it is just down our list of things to do. The team that did AHD is busy on the new HoI3 expansion, but our dedicated Beta team are still busy, gathering up issues for a 2.4 patch. We should return to Vic2 after the HoI3 expansion is out.
    Good news, although this is not a confirmation for the next VIC2 expansion, its great to hear that it is at least not ruled out. Some economic indicator would be nice though. It has been stated that HOI3 and CK2 are selling very well. And when there is no news conserning VIC2, other than Fredrick losing some hair over a beautifull woman, one would expect AHD sales to be on the level of moderate to poor...
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  9. #49
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    Im sick of having nothing to do during peace... during the early game Im just fast forwarding the game as I do more interesting things like staring at the empty refrigirator!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    No, it is just down our list of things to do. The team that did AHD is busy on the new HoI3 expansion, but our dedicated Beta team are still busy, gathering up issues for a 2.4 patch. We should return to Vic2 after the HoI3 expansion is out.
    Not bad.

  11. #51
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    My wishlist for a new expansion would include revamped combat, an adjustment of RGO sizes in the americas and immigration in general (I don't know if the extra draw to the USA is still in, but I really would like to see it removed if it is and replaced by prestige!), and most importantly, a powderkeg of a balkan area!

  12. #52
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    Tone down certain types of rebellions, I shouldn't see Prussian Nationalist revolts as Germany every 5 years.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    Regional markets make programmers cry, so I am not convinced it would be worth trying to even fight that battle. One of the reasons to split up China is that allowed the GPs to have seperate regionaly based Spheres without having to go and dig around in the World Market code. The Victoria 2 world market code is remarkably complex under the hood and they are loath to touch it.
    I'm sorry to hear that. In my view, Victoria 2 will never realize its full potential unless there are regional markets, which would allow for local price differences, transport costs between different regional markets, modelling tech and infrastructure effects on this (making railroads a more integral part of the economy), as well as naval blockades and tarriff wars. What an awesome playing field that would be!

    But I appreciate that it is very complex to program and balance, so if you are not convinced you can do it with the resources and time available, I suppose it is better to leave it alone. Still, that would be a pity.

  14. #54
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    If you add one new "feature" in the 2.4 patch though, is fix warscore, make the affect of 99% warscore in peace terms take what 50% takes now, and remove the cap from battel warscore, but cut the amount you can earn from battles significantly,

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Laskaris View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that. In my view, Victoria 2 will never realize its full potential unless there are regional markets, which would allow for local price differences, transport costs between different regional markets, modelling tech and infrastructure effects on this (making railroads a more integral part of the economy), as well as naval blockades and tarriff wars. What an awesome playing field that would be!

    But I appreciate that it is very complex to program and balance, so if you are not convinced you can do it with the resources and time available, I suppose it is better to leave it alone. Still, that would be a pity.
    Depends how it's done. If RMs are implemented simply as 'continental' SOIs, then it saves a lot of headaches - you're just adding 6 additional SOIs which aren't connected to GPs, and so side-step a lot of hardcore mechanic reworking. Of course, this means no regional price variations or transport costs etc, but does mean that (for example) a South American country will always be capable of getting Tropical Wood before a high prestige European country (unless it's sphered by them).

    Thing like regional pricing, transport costs, convoy systems etc would require ground-up reworking of the fundamentals of the economy, and so aren't really fodder for an expansion anyway - they're V3 territory. The trick is to look at what can be done by adjusting the existing mechanics (the two-tier market and simultaneous selling) rather than replacing them.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by garudamon11 View Post
    Im sick of having nothing to do during peace... during the early game Im just fast forwarding the game as I do more interesting things like staring at the empty refrigirator!
    That´s pretty much nails it. Too much complexity running in the background with zero player input. Then when war comes, bait enemy stacks in mountains, rinse and repeat until no army is left then occupy everything. Do that again in some years. Research machine guns first for even more "lulz".

    Sorry but I don´t think this game deserves more expansions, and some serious rework should be done in Vicky 3.

  17. #57
    Benevolent Imperialist flame7926's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagá View Post
    That´s pretty much nails it. Too much complexity running in the background with zero player input. Then when war comes, bait enemy stacks in mountains, rinse and repeat until no army is left then occupy everything. Do that again in some years. Research machine guns first for even more "lulz".

    Sorry but I don´t think this game deserves more expansions, and some serious rework should be done in Vicky 3.
    What about industrializing, rebels, politics? There is a lot to do, you just have to do it. Stuff happens without you, but a lot better with you. There is stuff to do besides war.
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  18. #58
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    Yeah if you're seeing this as a "war" game, you're totally missing the bigger picture.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    Depends how it's done. If RMs are implemented simply as 'continental' SOIs, then it saves a lot of headaches - you're just adding 6 additional SOIs which aren't connected to GPs, and so side-step a lot of hardcore mechanic reworking. Of course, this means no regional price variations or transport costs etc, but does mean that (for example) a South American country will always be capable of getting Tropical Wood before a high prestige European country (unless it's sphered by them).

    Thing like regional pricing, transport costs, convoy systems etc would require ground-up reworking of the fundamentals of the economy, and so aren't really fodder for an expansion anyway - they're V3 territory. The trick is to look at what can be done by adjusting the existing mechanics (the two-tier market and simultaneous selling) rather than replacing them.
    What about GB and france that are in the americas? Wouldnt they be included into the score/soi ranking?
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by wesleytj View Post
    Yeah if you're seeing this as a "war" game, you're totally missing the bigger picture.
    'There is nothing to do during peace' is silly. I could go with that for games like hoi or maybe even eu3, but vicky 2 is *about* what you do during peacetime. If you bought vicky 2 to play a wargame, then you probably didn't make a very good choice - your money was better spent elsewhere.

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