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gornard

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May 8, 2009
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I've only had a chance to play about 50 years so far as a user created islamic dynasty. But from the number of wives you are obliged to keep, you can easily rack up an appalling number of male dynasty members. So what i'd like to know is, how manageable does decadence become as your dynasty grows and what strategies are people using to keep it in check? So far i've used a holy war to get (for the time being) useless territory for all the sons aside from my heir. Is endemic war with christendom the only way to keep your sons fed with titles?

Also, does the amount of decadence generated decrease the further you are removed from a male dynasty member? Am i going to have to worry about 2nd cousins and the like?
 
I've found the decadence mechanic to be rather easy. Playing as Seville, I would give my heir my two most western provinces. From there, each son would receive one of my lesser demesne that I had conquered from my muslim neighbours. Upon succession, my heir would imprison and kill his landed brothers, and rather easily imprison any underage brothers. If a brother is in the dungeon then he doesn't incur decadence. Doing this, I was able to get to 0 decadence rather easily.
 
Imprisonment seems to work very well, altough I am not further ahead than you are. Either you managed to put the guys in prison which ends the problem, or they flee the country which also solves the problem.
 
You are allowed to imprison, kill, butcher, execute... any member of your dynasty. That's how you should manage decadence.
It only cost some piety I think, no relation malus.
 
Landing people is stupid. You can't just keep giving out land, you'll run out eventually... Just imprison them. Either they eff off to another kingdom and you get no decadence, or they stay and go to jail and you still get no decadence. Problem solved.
 
The problem with letting them go, is that they reproduce...
I did a game, were I had about 5/6 somn per generation.
I didn't start to kill and imprison then... they ended being like 600+ and you can do what you want, it's impossible to follow...
 
Landing people is stupid. You can't just keep giving out land, you'll run out eventually... Just imprison them. Either they eff off to another kingdom and you get no decadence, or they stay and go to jail and you still get no decadence. Problem solved.
Of course, if you care about maintaining good relations with your family, this method might be slightly problematic.
 
Landing people is stupid. You can't just keep giving out land, you'll run out eventually... Just imprison them. Either they eff off to another kingdom and you get no decadence, or they stay and go to jail and you still get no decadence. Problem solved.
You do, however, have a steady supply of suitable vassals. Just keep them fairly weak for a generation or two until all their claims die off, and they work quite well. As one of the Iberian muslim states, I've conquered 3/4 of Iberia and all bar a province or two of France and about a third to half of my immediate vassals are of my dynasty. There's usually a few half-brothers or brothers, several sons and then three or four "cadet branches" that are my present ruler's cousins and nephews.

If I need land for my sons, I give them one or two of my baron-level holdings. If I need more, I go to war. If I can't, for whatever reason, I imprison and/or execute a cousin and inherit his titles. It also provides a good way to cycle through vassals. Each generation, the ambitious ones will try and plot or rise up, you can revoke their holdings for no penalty, and get someone more pliable. Much better than other houses.
 
One baron holding isn't enough. Atm I'm playing as Africa and I have to give my kids at least 2 counties or decadence starts rising. And I don't like being dependent on conquest to keep decadence low.
 
I tried to give away some of the mosques i keep inheriting, but they only seem to take off about 0.01 off of the decadence growth, which averages at around 0.06. Making them a sheik takes off 0.05 iirc. I really wish at this point that there was a way of seeing the decadence tool tip for each character when they aren't causing decadence growth, so i can find out why.
 
One baron holding isn't enough. Atm I'm playing as Africa and I have to give my kids at least 2 counties or decadence starts rising. And I don't like being dependent on conquest to keep decadence low.
It appears to get bigger as your empire does. However, an interesting note is that the decadence from unlanded types also appears to be lessened if you have less than your maximum demesne. So, keeping 6/8 or whatever can make a difference. I keep myself at full, but then when you do have a glut of idle kin (like when seven male kin came of age in the same year), I can handaway a few and it does a fair bit.
 
I imprison and kill almost everyone off.
That works fine. And trying not to have too many children, I marry some 38/40 years old woman as second or third wife.
 
On a related note, has anyone seen any AI dynasties begin to suffer from decadence? I wonder how the AI tries to deal with it, whether they try to give away as much land as possible or just habitually execute/imprison family members.

I've seen the Seljuks have decadence up to 100% and collapse, some new dynasty Atukid now rules their lands, if I look at my vassals they usually have up to 50%, and on a funnier note, I invaded France and won, and the counts of Normandy converted to Islam, and the de Normandie family decadence was 99%! I'm still waiting to see what happens to a vassal.
 
I've found it possible to keep my decadence below 25% and mostly below 10% for 200 yrs.

Mostly, as has been pointed out, through imprisoning all the decadent members of my family. The only times that it spikes is during civil wars when the parent of those that I wish to imprison are tenuously still my vassals. It makes the whole family dynamic far more interesting imo. As a christian the family felt far more spread out and distant from one another. Now it feels like you truly are the head of the dynasty.