Plot Execution in 1.06
- Thread starter Mr. Charisma22
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I like the concept, I would just like to see any of these events.
Seriously, I've plotted to kill many, many people now and all with high plot percentages. And yet, nothing.
I'm about as unlucky with plots as the Iberians are unlucky with staying independent.
Seriously, I've plotted to kill many, many people now and all with high plot percentages. And yet, nothing.
I'm about as unlucky with plots as the Iberians are unlucky with staying independent.
So does that mean you no longer have to keep your spymaster happy, if he's no better at murdering you than anyone else?
Well as I stated before I thought this was an ok change... until I actually used it.. I've had a plot at over 200% for over 11 years now (bout 8 backers)and not one thing has happend. This system is either too random, not working as intendend or it just sucks.
Individual plot power is very important, and spymasters generally have the highest.
When to use execution plots
As others have said, kill-plots are now fundamentally different from assassinations. The choice of method is much more dependant on circumstances. Considerations, based on one night's (er, morning's) play:
1. How urgent is the kill needed? Assassinations will always be quicker, while plots can be rather random. Higher plot power certainly reduces the amount of time taken to gain a kill, but (as with all randoms) does not guarantee anything. If the target absolutely needs to die, right now, pay for an assassin. If the target's death is one of a range of possible ways of usurping their holdings (or whatever), plot.
2. How vulnerable is the target vs their title? Assassinating a high-ranking target (for example a Duke) costs a lot of money simply because they have the title. But if the target is a child (especially if they are a child) with little support among their own courtiers, plots can be an extremely cheap and effective method of removing the target.
3. How involved are you in the politics of the target's provence? If you don't care much about the politics of the target's provence, and just want them dead, assassinate. If you are already deeply embroiled, with many friends in high places, plots become a logical extension of that involvement.
4. Is the target's Spymaster or partner supportive of your plot? Plotters need to be trusted by the target - merely having a lot of plotters is immaterial because certain events appear only to trigger for individuals in trusted roles. I can't yet be more precise, but at this stage note that there very large differences in the effectiveness of individual potential plotters.
5. How highly do you value the plot slot? Sometimes plots become essential mechanics in a game-plan, and need to be reserved for plots that take a finite time to complete (for example, revoking a title). Perhaps your large nation can't afford to have the plot slot filled with a 3-year long mission, but one can afford an assassination. Other times plots are marginal, essentially free uses of slot that otherwise isn't being used for anything. These plots tend to be more useful for smaller nations.
I can't yet vouch for how well balanced these new plots are. Inevitably there will be some frustrating experiences at the start, even if one understands the strategies above: Plots are still random, and sometimes randoms are too random. But I like the design intent behind them.
As others have said, kill-plots are now fundamentally different from assassinations. The choice of method is much more dependant on circumstances. Considerations, based on one night's (er, morning's) play:
1. How urgent is the kill needed? Assassinations will always be quicker, while plots can be rather random. Higher plot power certainly reduces the amount of time taken to gain a kill, but (as with all randoms) does not guarantee anything. If the target absolutely needs to die, right now, pay for an assassin. If the target's death is one of a range of possible ways of usurping their holdings (or whatever), plot.
2. How vulnerable is the target vs their title? Assassinating a high-ranking target (for example a Duke) costs a lot of money simply because they have the title. But if the target is a child (especially if they are a child) with little support among their own courtiers, plots can be an extremely cheap and effective method of removing the target.
3. How involved are you in the politics of the target's provence? If you don't care much about the politics of the target's provence, and just want them dead, assassinate. If you are already deeply embroiled, with many friends in high places, plots become a logical extension of that involvement.
4. Is the target's Spymaster or partner supportive of your plot? Plotters need to be trusted by the target - merely having a lot of plotters is immaterial because certain events appear only to trigger for individuals in trusted roles. I can't yet be more precise, but at this stage note that there very large differences in the effectiveness of individual potential plotters.
5. How highly do you value the plot slot? Sometimes plots become essential mechanics in a game-plan, and need to be reserved for plots that take a finite time to complete (for example, revoking a title). Perhaps your large nation can't afford to have the plot slot filled with a 3-year long mission, but one can afford an assassination. Other times plots are marginal, essentially free uses of slot that otherwise isn't being used for anything. These plots tend to be more useful for smaller nations.
I can't yet vouch for how well balanced these new plots are. Inevitably there will be some frustrating experiences at the start, even if one understands the strategies above: Plots are still random, and sometimes randoms are too random. But I like the design intent behind them.
I assassinated the Queen of Leon for 50 gold because she was pregnant while i plotted to kill the the king. Seems more realistic to me
Are two backers with 60% plot power (each) more effective than 6 backers with 20%( each) plot power ?
It was way overpowered before. I was able to annihilate the Rum Sultans(the hole line, they eventually got inherited by the Seljuk sultanate) one by one so that i would not wait 10 years to holy war against them it felt wrong. It makes more sense to work through events.
Yes, the system is more realistic, but it's also WAY too random. Just to test things I decided to do another plot, and I had 1240% plot power with about 8 people backing me, including spymaster. I waited a whole decade and have yet to see progress.
Major tweaking needs to happen, because at this point I am just going to stop using plots
Major tweaking needs to happen, because at this point I am just going to stop using plots
So my update after 7 plots..... of them 4 seemed to work ok.. got a manure bomb.. thrown over on a ship.. etc.. the other 3 I waited 15 (ish) years without a thing happening. One of the plots that never moved did get discovered but it didnt cancel the plot. The other two that never did anything had just as many backers and just as high a % as the ones that worked, they simply just never did anything.
I reckon that the mtth should be reduced for the amount of plot power you have. e.g. if youve got 100 plot power youve got everyone you need on board to kill the target, so it shouldnt be too hard to organize an accident. on the other hand if youve got 50 plot power its more likely that your character is waiting for an oppurtunity to present itself or has to be extra meticilous about the details on what must occur during the accident.
Yeah it was over powered before, went on a murder spree of my entire family under gavilkind law and it was too easy. I like the whole plot thing but to be honest it shouldnt be just about murdering every one.
I like the new system, it was way OP before (and I´m saying this after having a plot to kill my father with 120% power, 8 backers, and not firing any event for over 10 years... finally he changed the succession laws so I wouldn´t inherit anything, thus making killing him irrelevant).
However, I would like to know a bit more about the numbers involved. Is the MTTH for the events only modified by each backer´s plot power individually, or does the total plot power have some effect on it as well? Does your state intrigue affect the MTTH for every possible event somehow, or does it only affect the MTTH of an event where you personally kill the target?
However, I would like to know a bit more about the numbers involved. Is the MTTH for the events only modified by each backer´s plot power individually, or does the total plot power have some effect on it as well? Does your state intrigue affect the MTTH for every possible event somehow, or does it only affect the MTTH of an event where you personally kill the target?
If those are relevant than I don't even know why they bother giving a plot power indicator
Exactly, that´s why I´d like to better understand how the system works now. Derp posted earlier that, as far as he can understand the files, individual plot power is more important than total plot power. That makes the total plot power indicator quite irrelevant, so why is it still there?
Yeah.. maybe it canceled the OP of the murder plot, but to exchange it with full randomness cannot be the solution.
I played around with some values and it seems at around 1/3rd of current MTTHs the feature is somewhat useable, enough to be situationally better than Assassinations.
Hopefully looking at the timers will happen for 1.06a next week.
Hopefully looking at the timers will happen for 1.06a next week.
In fact they should have just removed the assassinate button altogether. It's gamey beyond reason.
If you don't like the way it is now you can press the ` button and type in charinfo then find their char id and use the kill command. It'll be just like using the old system if you wait until you have more than 100% plot power.