I tried reducing the MTTH back to hundreds by removing a zero for all the plot events, to see how it went.
It's better, but might feel a bit fast. I'm now waiting for months to years, rather then years to decades, and that's much more comfortable.
I'm still of the opinion that there was an error in the writing of the MTTH timing, but it might not have been a zero too much, bight just have been a miscalculation. Hopefully, we'll get to see in the following patches.
I've had plots with 15+ backers and over 400% not fire for years. Its ridiculous. If 80% or your court is in on the plan, it shouldnt take that damn long for a chance to show up. And of course the event only showed up after the problem i was trying to solve had already been solved a different way....
I like the idea behind the new method but the mtth needs to be less. Maybe not a full digit less, but less for sure.
I really consider this an improvement and don't like hearing all of you bitch about it.
True i could kill all the spanish kings in a couple days with the old system and besides i like the new dialog for the new systemOriginally Posted by Torf the Great
I started a plot against an under-age heir of a neighbuoring duchy, had lots of backers and well above 100% plot power. Nothing happened for years and years.
Then I discovered, that the spymaster of that duchy was not in on my plot and absolutely refused to join. Turns out that she was the mother of my potential victim - that makes kind of sense, really.
What is MTTH, by the way? (sorry if it is a nooby question)
Glad I found this thread but I have a few issues that I havn't seen anybody else mention yet. Has anyone else noticed a problem with "failed plot" opinion modifiers? I think these two scenarios I've come across represent bugs since to results are not entirely logical.
First scenario: I had a kill plot going for several years with a plot power well over 100% and then the target died of natural causes. I'm notified that the plot ends. At first I shrugged my shoulders but then noticed a revolt icon up top. Upon looking into it I found that everybody who was involved in the plot (several dukes among them) had an opinion modifier of -25 for a failed plot. The plot didn't fail, at worst it ended inconclusively just like when you wage war to press claims for someone and they die before victory so the war ends. The plot ends inconclusively so why is everybody pissed at me? It wasn't discovered, nobody was exposed or found to be dishonorable but now everyone is furious and I have to put out brush fires.
Second scenario: A duke had a modest revolt risk (15% or so) so I decided to plot and have him killed. Again I got a large number of duke and various people to back the plot giving it a plot power of about 250%. A couple of years go by and my target revolts. I fight the war, toss him in prison revoke one of his titles and let him rot waiting fo the plot to finish him of. Eventually I revisit the intrigue screen and see that all of the plot backers are gone EXCEPT myself. The plot didn't "fail" and there were no notifications. I go check one of the dukes I knew was involved and sure enough he has a negative opinion modifier for the "failed" plot (he was not involved in scenario #1 so I know it was in regards to the current plot). Since you can plot to kill people who are not your vassal it doesn't really make since to have the plot break just because your target rebels.
The other problem i've come across is the same as many other people have mentioned already. Want to kill my wife, have about 20 backers and a plot power of 500%. Five years or so go by and nothing happens. Eventually somebody gets drunk and blabs (they do not have the drunkard attribute). As an experiment I reloaded to a save from about a year previous and crank up the speed. A year or two later somebody gets drunk and blabs. Did this five times total and every time it was a differnt person getting drunk who did not have the drunken attribute (Not that I think the attribute is important but the first time it happened I was 'impressed" and figured I was getting hit for picking my backers poorly. This information is more of an FYI because you know somebody is going to ask.) This scenario could just be bad luck... it happens. That being said, 500% plot power? Five years? Five failures? I love the framwork for the new intruige methodology but the risk reward seems as ridiculously skewed towards the negative and it was skewed to the positive under the old system.
And for a cherry on top, how about a suggestion? If a failed plot gives a negative modifier shouldn't a sucessful plot give a modest little positive modifier? If a mutually beneficial working relationship doesn't foster a sense of camaraderie I don't know what would.
I'll have to agree that MTTH seems out of whack. But I guess it all depends on how you play. If your entire game only lasts 200 hundred years and you play that out over weeks playing only between 10 and 20 years per gaming session then Murder Plots and even Claim Fabrication seems like nothing happens.
Now if you are playing then entire campaign and play more than 1 decade in a session it would probably seem like the plots and fabrication fire all the the time.
What I am getting at is perhaps their is a difference in opinion on the MTTH due to personal playing styles. I can go through 3 or 4 sessions sometimes without the plot murder plot firing. Only time I really used it before 1.06 was to kill my wive to get a nice young bride. But if it takes me 2 decades to pull off the plot what is the point. I'll just work on getting a 20+ Spymaster and saving enough gold to off my wife.
Where as before assassinations were ridiculous cheap and super OP it was adjusted and is much better. Then the murder plots came out and it was OP they adjusted it. I agree the concept now is way better then before and only the MTTH needs to be reviewed.
I would like something like every murder plot has to take at least 3 years but no more than 6 if you are at 100%+ that is. That way by no means does it happen instantly like before but it doesn't take a decade plus for it to happen. I mean if you have 100% plot power then it shouldn't take more then 6 years to plot to kill someone. If it does take more than 6 years then the plot should just auto fail due to severe time length.
There's an old Italian saying, don't burn your tongue on another man's soup.
IIRC there was a post detailing it somewhere
it starts at ~1400 MTTH
and ends up around ~2.4 MTTH with high value plotters etc
Ignored: Nuril, videonfan, Pandi
I'd like to see the challenge be to get backers and creating a plan. Not clicking on a bunch of "random" portaits then waiting years for something to happen.
Remove the scroll that tells you whether someone will back you or not just by going to their diplomacy screen. The player should need to look for people that the target has wronged or who are ambitious. Ask the wrong person and the plot will be exposed right away. Once you feel you have enough people, have an option to choose plans depending on relations of the backers to the target, then a short MTTH depending on the chosen plan for the event itself that determines success or failure.
Mean Time To Happen
http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Mtth
It stands for Mean Time To Happen. Since it's mean time, it can take longer, or shorter, but will be about that. In the case of these plots, the MTTH is measured in months. Thousands of months.
They could also trigger decisions as the plot drags on that would let you choose between higher risk and more patience:
"My Lord, the plot to kill your brother, Rufus the Dufus, has made no progress in many months...."
1 - "I said I want his head! Now!" (reduces MTTH but also increase chance of discovery).
2 - "All will happen in good time." (no modifications)
3 - [req N Intrigue score]. "We will widen the web."
X% plot revealed. Gain Paranoia trait.
Y% random new backer joins plot.
Z% That was a stupid idea. (No effect. -10 opinion from Spymaster)
This will be addressed in the next update. Assassination plots that are above 100% plot power will be far more likely to fire (especially if they are above 150% or even 200%).
This makes me happy. Conceptually I love the changes to assassination plots, but the new plot mechanism felt far too random in practice. Glad to see that overall plot power will mean something again.
(kinda open / OT) question...
Can the MTTH be modified for all events at once instead of changing one by one?
(aka: "defines" file) ?
Before sending me to register the game:
1) I don't have it, I played it in a CC (Cyber-coffee).
2) I don't have credit card and paypal doesn't allow charging money without a valid one as I'm apparently in an 8th world country: Chile.
3) If you find anyway to buy it via WESTERN UNION, send me a message!.
Thanks to Vince!
+1
Thats good news, although it might hard to reach that level of support for most plots.
Personally Ive tried several levels of cutting MTTH versus the vanilla values and Ive found that even cutting the values down to 25% of the defaults across the board still felt unreasonably slow (though much more useable), but still making me use 'Assassination" instead in almost all scenarios, except when broke very early on. The guy posting about 10X reduction might have gone overboard but not that much.
Furthermore, in addition to the MTTH issues there are the discovery issues. Youve coded 25-50% odds to be caught, and this is just very damn high compared to what you can get with Assassinations and a good spymaster sent to help out. IMO this should also be scaled down to more reasonable rates when plot power is high.
After reading the first few assassination plot events, I get the impression that only the main plotter plot power matters. So personnally having >100% plot power would make it very quick, but if you are plotting with someone else with >100% it won't help (much).
But I may have misread the event (I'm not sure if they only fire for the main plotter, or for all conspirators).
Meh... it's still not terribly interesting or involved. Just looking around for unhappy people and then, tediously, adding them to the club. There's no chance of, say, convincing a vassal to hold a feast which will present the perfect opportunity to murder someone while deflecting the blame away from myself because, hey, not my feast.
In general this has been my biggest complaint about the plotting and diplomacy. It's just incredibly shallow and most of the interesting things that could happen are entirely out of your control or ability to influence in any way. Even worse most of the plotting is just murdering someone. There isn't a very wide range of potential plots when there really should be.
Actually this is a good idea. Add modifiers that make the events more likely to succeed while your character is "Holding a feast", "Holding a grand hunt" or a Summer fair, with each type of murder favored by one of these...
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