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Thread: Has anyone been able to beat the Winter War Scenario as the Soviets?

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    Lt. General NapoleonComple's Avatar
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    Has anyone been able to beat the Winter War Scenario as the Soviets?

    I was expecting for this to be the other way round, with the Finns being hard to win as and the Soviets being easy. Turns out its the opposite. No matter what I do, I just can't break into Finland; it takes all I have just to hold what I already have. Has anyone managed to achieve a tactical or strategic victory as the Soviets in the Winter War scenario?

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    The Finns are tough and won't give up without a fight.

    I took a glance at it. Usually if you want to win the Winter War as the USSR in the main game, you have transports and sneak in some units behind the capital while also invading through the north. No transports in the scenario, so that plan is out. Attacking through Viipuri, as is, is suicide. So, launch attacks in the north and try to break through there, or at least scare the AI into removing troops at Viipuri.

    But, it seems like the sort of scenario that you're not supposed to win, or at least should consider it lucky to get even a small victory. (Like the Invasion of Poland played as the Polish.)

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    Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I tried to attack through the north, but the Finns have just enough forces to lock up your army in Leningrad and they are usually the ones who try to attack you in central East Karelia. I'd imagine the only way to win would be to run them out of manpower very quickly; the Finns do not have a lot of manpower (as I found playing their side of the scenario, which was a brief but cheerful exercise in "Find the defensive line and protect it like your firstborn child." It worked!)

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    I would not presume to be knowledgeable as to how historically accurate the in-game depiction of Soviet and Finnish military strength vis-a-vis each other is. However, what this thread describes for the Winter War Scenario is quite different from how the Winter War unfolds in the GC. Specifically, in my experience, it is impossible to win the Winter War as Finland. I mean "victory" in the loosest possible sense, such as permanently holding the Soviets at the border, at least until Germany declares war on them, if they refuse to make peace.

    The problem with that is Kajaani. Because this province can be attacked from 3 Soviet provinces, it is the weak point. Noticing this, I stacked up more divisions there than on the rest of the border - around 20+. I built fortifications as well. This worked fine for a few months. Then the Soviets attacked from those three provinces with around 50 divisions.

    I've only played as Finland that one time, but every time the Winter War occurs while I'm playing another country, the same thing happens. The Soviets break through at Kajaani, and since that province borders many Finnish interior provinces, it is impossible for Finland to defend all of them.

    Although, in hindsight, it does seem more sensible to attack through central Finland as the AI always does...it has to make you wonder why the IRL Soviets spent more effort attacking the fortified Viipuri region instead. It's even more ironic when you consider that the main Soviet offensive into central Finland ended in one of the Finns' greatest victories at the Battle of Suomussalmi.

    Long story short, in the GC, it seems to be impossible to "win" as Finland without allies and at Normal difficulty (or higher). The only ways to win that I can think of are being in an alliance or lowering the difficulty level. Annexing other countries before the war might help, but I doubt it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Watch View Post
    I would not presume to be knowledgeable as to how historically accurate the in-game depiction of Soviet and Finnish military strength vis-a-vis each other is. However, what this thread describes for the Winter War Scenario is quite different from how the Winter War unfolds in the GC. Specifically, in my experience, it is impossible to win the Winter War as Finland. I mean "victory" in the loosest possible sense, such as permanently holding the Soviets at the border, at least until Germany declares war on them, if they refuse to make peace.

    The problem with that is Kajaani. Because this province can be attacked from 3 Soviet provinces, it is the weak point. Noticing this, I stacked up more divisions there than on the rest of the border - around 20+. I built fortifications as well. This worked fine for a few months. Then the Soviets attacked from those three provinces with around 50 divisions.

    I've only played as Finland that one time, but every time the Winter War occurs while I'm playing another country, the same thing happens. The Soviets break through at Kajaani, and since that province borders many Finnish interior provinces, it is impossible for Finland to defend all of them.

    Although, in hindsight, it does seem more sensible to attack through central Finland as the AI always does...it has to make you wonder why the IRL Soviets spent more effort attacking the fortified Viipuri region instead. It's even more ironic when you consider that the main Soviet offensive into central Finland ended in one of the Finns' greatest victories at the Battle of Suomussalmi.

    Long story short, in the GC, it seems to be impossible to "win" as Finland without allies and at Normal difficulty (or higher). The only ways to win that I can think of are being in an alliance or lowering the difficulty level. Annexing other countries before the war might help, but I doubt it.
    I think a big part of this is a: you have a lack of time; the Soviets only have about 7 months and it can take that long just moving your armies around. b: there are a LOT of Finnish divisions in the scenario; the Soviet numbers advantage is not spectacular. c: FROZEN GROUND! This being, of course, what knackered the Soviets I believe; the penalties troops suffer in the freezing conditions basically grind any Soviet counterattack into the ground regardless of numbers (within reason).

    It's these three factors which make the Finns so hard to crack.

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    I asked something similar in Aod a while back, except I was playing as the Finns and couldn't lose.

    The answer I think was that the scenario has the Russian objectives too far into Finnland.

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