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Thread: Need Expansions..

  1. #1

    Need Expansions..

    Soo.. yeah i played Sengoku, also i am a total Japan nerd. I love Japan and the Samurai culture, although i have to say that the game disappointed me. It isnt complex at all. I play paradox games because i love long, complex games where i have to manage a lot and can manage an enourmus amount of different things.


    Dont get me wrong, the money i spent in the game was ok. And i also had fun, but its not a game i can play again and again and again. The Map for example is way too small, i dont mean that its bad that its only japan, but i think that even japan is too small. I dont know, it could have been so much better. This game was worth about 40 Euro, although Ck II, Hoi3 and Vic2 are worth more than 100 Euro (in my eyes).

    So i would say this game really needs expansions, better probably an entire rework. Dont get me wrong, probably some thinking something totally different but i think Sengoku would have been much better, if Paradox would have just taken CKII and configure it for the Japan setting. Although it would have been much more interesting, if there would have been china, Korea and Japan.


    Something i would also look forward to would be a game whish makes it possible to play european and asian dynasties at the same time (in the medieval or antic age). Imagine the Chinese never destroyed their fleet and went to europe... colonizing it.


    In EU3 its a bit too late for that (i think).

  2. #2
    Sengoku is beautiful, if simple, on its own.

    But yeah, when I play A House Divided, or For the Motherland, or CKII, I realize how Sengoku's really more in the Rome basket than with any of the more popular games.

    I sure hope Sengoku gets a second look. I think it's a fantastic game, and it could fill a niche out there. Then again, I'm a history nerd and I know how many of us there are out there...

  3. #3
    I actually like Sengoku's simplicity. It's nice to have a game to play that won't take ages and ages to finish. And it's not entirely without thought; I do still often have to pause the game and consider my next move. (Yes, I am a noob to Paradox games. If you've been playing 'em for years, I can imagine it probably doesn't present so much of a challenge.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgünoglu View Post
    I realize how Sengoku's really more in the Rome basket than with any of the more popular games.
    Interesting, since I also like EU: Rome. I have yet to play a Paradox game other than Sengoku and Rome, though, partly because Rome and Japan are two subjects that interest me and the Crusades not so much. I do have EU3, but I've yet to get around to playing it...

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant Yrsnö's Avatar
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    Yes, Sengoku needs an expansion or two. The game is good in its own right but there's only so much you can do before it just repeats itself. A little more details to buildings, a couple of more plots and event initiated plots, some deeper branching events and more focus on inter-clan and clan-character politics and relations could make this gem shine like a diamond. Only my opinion though.

    EDIT: One thing I really liked about EU-series was that the, sometimes rather lengthy, interbellum sessions offered plenty of things to do while plotting the future. Sengoku has a nice tempo as well but it could take a few notes from EU in that regard but with shorter intervals.
    Sometimes life, it moves too slow
    Slows to a crawl, and all the poetry is lost

  5. #5
    i love those series but Europe map bores me.. so many games with europe

    we need a sengoku as good as CK2 but only japanese version

  6. #6
    My main area of concern is the efficiency if the AI. True, often the AI will make some daft decisions but, on the whole, it's murderous. The only way to get ahead is to max honour and steamroll. I have had several campaigns where I tried role-playing and immersion but some clans become impossibly powerful if you don't keep up pace and they will think nothing of wiping you out. CK2 has mercs for that extra bit of hope, in Sengoku one has to rely solely on levies and retinue. Ronin events are rare enough to make them a nice bonus but they cannot be relied upon.

    This turns Sengoku gameplay into a race to the finish and because this is the main and only concern, I often pay little attention to other mechanics of the game. I really am not kidding, I tried settling the play a little at 30% and still got caught out by a couple of rampant clans.

    Slower pace and slightly bumped up political side of things would make Sengoku a lot more enjoyable for me, personally. MIH mod really improves on some aspects but it's the core of the game which forms one's habits and now I just race race race to bump honour and nab as much land as I can before things get difficult.

  7. #7
    I don't believe the Chinese ever really had the ability to colonize Europe. During the Dark Ages China did not have the logistical ability to colonize a land mass half way across the world, and already by the Crusading period we see the might of Europe beginning to form (with its ability to conquer lands far beyond its boarders in the Crusades- and, more critically, to hold on to them for long periods of time).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
    My main area of concern is the efficiency if the AI. True, often the AI will make some daft decisions but, on the whole, it's murderous.
    I was playing on Normal difficulty, but I found the AI quite stupid. Not just now and then, but always. Maybe it's because I've only played one game so far and I've gotten extraordinarily lucky?

    Here's the basis of my opinion:
    * A shrewd AI will attack you while you're already tied up in another war. This rarely happened to me, while I did it to them constantly.
    * The AI splits up its forces too much instead of creating stacks of doom. A 10k stack crushes five 2k stacks much more easily than another 10k stack. Doom stacks are also great for sieges -- you can often just rampage through enemy territory and watch the kori fall like dominoes.
    * The AI isn't too bright when it comes to sieges. A very common scenario for me early in the game, and occasionally occurring later in the game, was I'm besieging one of their kori while they're doing the same to mine, but my siege was obviously going to win first. Then I could just take my stack and kick them off my property. Now I've gained a kori and they've gained nothing. Wash, rinse, repeat until nothing is left.
    * The AI doesn't pay attention when you raise a bunch of levies and concentrate your forces by their border right before you declare war. To be fair, it'd be quite difficult to program the AI to respond to this situation correctly, but the fact remains that it does not.
    * The three-year waiting period for becoming shogun was a joke. I was worried because I figured everybody was gonna declare war on me. You know who did? Nobody. It was entirely peaceful except for a tiny war I myself declared on a four-kori clan since their territory was mixed up with mine. I suppose maybe if there were any serious contenders it'd have been different; I was ridiculously huge compared to any nearby clans. Still, they could have ganged up on me.

    In my game, where I took Ashikaga from 1% all the way to the shogunship, I only had one war that presented a real headache (I still don't know where my enemy got all those troops from when I was bigger than him!), and even then I eventually came out on top.

    Really, Sengoku made me feel like a military genius when the truth is the AI just isn't very bright. :P
    Last edited by furrykef; 06-07-2012 at 16:07.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by furrykef View Post
    Interesting, since I also like EU: Rome. I have yet to play a Paradox game other than Sengoku and Rome, though, partly because Rome and Japan are two subjects that interest me and the Crusades not so much. I do have EU3, but I've yet to get around to playing it...
    You can see from my badges that I'm a Paradox devotee. I'd recommend EU and Victoria; they're darn good. It's just that Rome and Sengoku are these little neglected kids. PI is so much better than CA/Sega, but at least all those games seem to get sequels (worthy or otherwise)... Ah well. Maybe that's the cost of PI's experimentalism. I also bought Diplomacy, b/c the board game's terrific and I figured it'd be great on PC. Boy, I felt like a sucker.

  10. #10
    i would love an expansion and would buy it with out a thought (as i do most of there eu style games) would love to see more detail and complexity added in like eu3 expansions did

  11. #11
    I really do enjoy Sengoku as an alternative to the other paradox games because it doesn't take me days to play a full game through, it is instead a short intense fight to the finish. That being said, if Sengoku were to get an expansion I'd be for having another quick playthough scenario set during another period of japanese history. Playing the Boshin war through would be both fun and similarly brief.

  12. #12
    Would love an expansion. This game need more stuff to do in it.

  13. #13
    me too! sengoku seems a abandoned game

  14. #14
    Lt. General Hister's Avatar
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    MIH mod will spice thing up for you! Who needs expansions...
    Lose your honour on these forums and I'll make you commit seppuku

    Go check out my AoD CORE 0.60 AAR!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hister View Post
    MIH mod will spice thing up for you! Who needs expansions...
    Yes, I need more suggestion and feedback. We can make this game better even without expansions (though we have a certain limitation without them).
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  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant Peonage's Avatar
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    Mods, expansions, anything is good for this game. I love Sengoku with a passion because it gets away from the whole world/Euro view of so many of the other Paradox games. I seriously hope they don't let this gem just slip away from them.

  17. #17
    THis game is not as big as other games in the paradox catalog but I must admit that it is the least glitchy and most well put together game which I welcome expansion with open arms.
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  18. #18
    Second Lieutenant Peonage's Avatar
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    I agree completely! This is definitely one of my most cherished PI games.

  19. #19
    I like most of PI's games. And I think Sengoku could use an expansion or lite-expansion dlc.

  20. #20
    Second Lieutenant Peonage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdboddy View Post
    I like most of PI's games. And I think Sengoku could use an expansion or lite-expansion dlc.
    I agree with this 100%. Unfortunately, I don't think that will ever happen.

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