For some reason I can't help but imagine any DLC named like that would need music from Manowar or a Scandinavian metal band as its opening music.
Damn Straight
Are pagans worth an entire DLC?
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Damn Straight
This is why I'm concerned about this DLC and how it would look if they listened to the majority of the people on this forum...
All this neo-nazi talk about buff "viking" dudes with... (sigh) horns on their helmets and brutal manner conquering the world with no resistance. Thor and Odin as the only existing gods to worship. And the list goes on full with ahistorical claims...
I hate people whose historical base comes from watching fictional movies...
I would like to see the pagans given some love. But it wouldn't be enough to make a full DLC. I would want them to bundle it with stuff for other religions and cultures, too.
Naval warfare could also see some buffs...
Naval warfare could also see some buffs...
I don't... uh... I don't get where the 'neo-nazi talk' thing comes from. The Vikings were a people (or peoples, for that matter) known for their fighting skills and the fact that they plundered pretty much every european coast, that's a fact. Now, whether they actually lived up to that is a different question.
I don't get that attitude, though. What does being a 'neo-nazi' have to do with ANYTHING posted here? It just feels like a lot of people here are using words whose meaning they're not familiar with. I get that all that ww2 stuff is still a big deal in scandinavia and germany, but how the hell do you get from there to here, exactly?
A lot of Nazi symbolism was related to Viking/Norse/Germanic mythology. Now that many Nazi symbols are banned in Europe, many right-wing groups are forced to draw alternatives from other Viking/Norse/Germanic symbols, and these are therefore viewed with a bit of suspicion by your average European. This is not really an issue in America or Australia, where Nazi symbols aren't banned, and thus there's little incentive for the far-right to plough the depths of Pagan mythology for alternatives. Plus our right-wing movements don't tend to be quite so neo-Nazi, they tend to be more nationalist, nativist and populist (and therefore hostile to Nazi symbology, just like the mainstream).
I'm not talking about the similarities of the definitions for pagans and terrorists. I only mean in the way in which the words are applied in the real world. Do you deny that pagan, heathen, and heretic are examples of words thrown around by Islamic and Christian clergy for hundreds of years in order to put anyone opposed to their beliefs in a bad light, and that what defined the pagan, heathen, or heretic to them was their devotion to other gods? Similarly, do you deny that modern Western nations use the same tactics today, in calling different separatist and rebel groups terrorists? Hell, even Greenpeace is considered a terrorist-organisation in the US because it's considered a somewhat troublemaker with an agenda of clean energy, that goes against those of many industries which the US rely on today.
I know the original meaning of the word (perhaps I ought to have mentioned that earlier), but again we are dealing with the meaning the word holds to us and to the people of the game - not what it meant to the Romans or earliest Christians a thousand years before the game's time-frame. Anyway, let's get back on topic, buddy.
Do keep in mind that the Scandinavians were among the last people of Europe to turn to Christianity, and that the southern half of Sweden wasn't really considered Christian until some 50 years before the game begins, at most (and you still have to enforce Christianity on the northern half once you begin playing). In short, there is a strong divide in nations like Sweden (even within the nobility) and it would make sense to construct a DLC or a bigger expansion around pagan gameplay. It doesn't have to be about any specific polytheism like Asatro, as long as it is a collective of peoples unwilling to convert to any of the major religions. Pagans from different nations could even see a friend in each other (in the gameplay sense, such as gaining prestige, etc.), like Christians would, because their way of life is under direct threat by the new 'hip' faiths taking over Europe, and they now share a common goal.
Though it would be cooler with several polytheisms.
First of all... "Viking" weren't a people, but the name of the raiders coming from Scandinavia (Another name for pirates in the north). The Norse is the people you're referring to and that is a big difference. (People don't know their true nature as traders rather than raiders either it seems.)
Second of all... it's commonly known that the nazis used the Germanic tribes (Scandinavians tribes is subgroup) to verify their right to rule over others and why there genes was "better". In Sweden the vikings were used in the same way under the influence of Nazism.
It's very rude to use "Vikings" in that manner, you disrespect history by doing so. Please don't.
Sorry for nitpicking, but the definition of the word Viking is a bit off here. 'To go Viking' was to travel away from your home, whether to trade, explore, conquer, or settle elsewhere. The Vikings weren't a people, but rather a profession that some Scandinavians chose.
Thank you for your help, I couldn't have put it in any better way myself.
For some reason I can't help but imagine any DLC named like that would need music from Manowar or a Scandinavian metal band as its opening music.
Haha, yes!
Or rather, a full music DLC inspired by the Skyrim soundtrack mixed with the good bits from the 13th Warrior soundtrack.
First of all... "Viking" weren't a people, but the name of the raiders coming from Scandinavia (Another name for pirates in the north). The Norse is the people you're referring to and that is a big difference. (People don't know their true nature as traders rather than raiders either it seems.)
Second of all... it's commonly known that the nazis used the Germanic tribes (Scandinavians tribes is subgroup) to verify their right to rule over others and why there genes was "better". In Sweden the vikings were used in the same way under the influence of Nazism.
It's very rude to use "Vikings" in that manner, you disrespect history by doing so. Please don't.
I don't wanna argue semantics here. The vikings were norse raiders/traders/explorers. But nowadays it's often used to refer to the norse people of the viking era (incorrectly probably, but terminology isn't really a passion of mine). Political correctness isn't my thing , so I don't really care about semantics all that much. That's also why I never liked Superman as a character. 'OH NO I CAN'T KILL YOU TO SAVE 10 BILLION PEOPLE, IT'S WRONG.'. But I digress.
I do know that in scandinavia and germany there's still a lot of leftover ww2 nazi influence, with the swastika and other stuff being banned. I also understand that the whole blonde viking thing was used as a symbol of aryan genetical superiority and that recent events may have rubbed salt in old wounds. But the truth is that it's sort of irrelevant in this case. The point of the thread was whether a pagan dlc is a good idea (defo is imho). Some people may have mentioned how this reminds them of certain features that are often prevalent in metal, but I'm pretty sure that's not a right-wing extremist thing. I just think you're getting too jumpy here...
Lets end the discussion about Nazi-stuff right here. It has nothing to do with CK2.
Well if I were a woman, the choice would be much more difficult. But as a man I could maybe agree to that. Better than being enslaved by your hungry neighbour or got your ribcage ripped apart after losing a battle (called "the split eagle", performed when you were still alive btw.).
Well there are many who are very "nostalgic" about "the pagans", about norse paganism, and revel in romantic dreams also about history. To be honest, I used to be close to this, tried to practise asatru, was part of a reenactment group etc pp. That was also one reason why I started my study of (early) medieval history at university. Since then my view changed to be much more critical.
All I know from my experience is that there is the general tendency among some neo pagans - or let's better say: people who sympathize with some crude ideals promoted by metal, mostly it is just some metal heads trying to be a tough warrior. But the general tendency is to simplify and condemn christianity, seeing christians as foreigners who brought the pagan beliefs to downfall. The thing they forget is that it is the europeans who actually made christianity their own, and they forged it to be their own. Wanting to reverse the christianization of europe in a game, fine and dandy if you like to, I wouldn't want to live in that world in real life, but well this is a game so it has something that could offer interesting new gameplay.
I was never baptized btw., part of a church or anything, but I definitely prefer a god that is said to be a loving one. Speaking of love, I think before advancing new DLC and whatnot, give the christian religion some love, the representation of religion is much to shallow. After that Paradox could add more depth to the religions already ingame, I would love to see a pagan DLC.
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Hm, I Really hope they develop the pagan expansion now after the sword of Islam, thus making all religions playable.
and there's tons of interesting religions, although i think they should Push the timeline backwards to before chrisitanity got a complete hold over the entire of Europa, such as Scandinavia and such.
also imagine re-enacting the Lithuania vs the Teutonic order.
and there's tons of interesting religions, although i think they should Push the timeline backwards to before chrisitanity got a complete hold over the entire of Europa, such as Scandinavia and such.
also imagine re-enacting the Lithuania vs the Teutonic order.
IF i remember correctly from the history class, it was common for per say the second son (and third etc) "go viking" be it raiding or tradeing in order to earn their own wealth and prestige, while the first born often remained at home due to being the heir to the family lands (often a farm or a holding).
Correct. Cyberbard gave us a good explanation. The important part is that vikings aren't a people, which I hope everyone understands now.
And not a single person in the world called the later Roman Empire the "Byzantine Empire", but as long as people know what you're talking about, it's hardly a big deal. Correcting misconceptions or providing interesting info on the medieval Scandinavians is great, but someone calling them "vikings" isn't worth getting upset over. That is what they are called in common English parlance.
Gedimai Lithuania that lasted up to the XIVth century ?
Also I would require that tech difference between pagan and christian be less marked as it was historically the case. Also the first Mongol Hordes where a mixture of pagan/muslim so it make sense.
No one is upset, but the topic concerns Vikings among others which makes it relevant. Considering all Scandinavians of the Viking-era to have been Vikings is sort of like considering all American settlers in the 16th century as British.
An odd comparison, considering there was no British settlement of North America until the 17th century.