"Thursday's Insanity" — Thursdays, 20:00 CST

[ind2bc]

I'll take Holland (unless France just wants to annex me or something). I assume I'll be able to work out some good relationships! Also, I connected to TeamSpeak. I was just confused bc it requested a password before.

EDIT: fixed.

Being a good diplomat is just part of Multiplayer especially as a minor you need the backing of one of the major powers for holland it's either France or Austria possibly England but that really depends as Holland usually competes with England and England isn't in a great position to deal with France in the beginning of the game

[Boga]

Wazzul (France) is a really nice guy, right Wazzul?
He would never annex small countries like Brittany or Holland.

[englishbyz]

haha. I'll send Wazzul a plate of cookies!

[Uladh88]

hansa has sad face, 1000 ducats to holland does this mean he is going to make a navy stronger than me now?

i already had to deal with the trolls in this game making life difficult for me

[Y2Jonathan]

hansa has sad face, 1000 ducats to holland does this mean he is going to make a navy stronger than me now?

i already had to deal with the trolls in this game making life difficult for me

You have something like 24 big ships. At 45 ducats a ship, that comes to 1080 in total. Currently, Utrecht doesn't have a single ship due to starting the game land-locked. In addition, they only have two cored coastal provinces meaning it will take a very long time to build any fleet. Utrecht starts out mostly mercantile so they currently have no trade income meaning that 1000 will have to last awhile.

The only way Utrecht is getting a larger navy than you any time soon is if you get into a war and lose your fleet.

[ind2bc]

hansa has sad face, 1000 ducats to holland does this mean he is going to make a navy stronger than me now?

i already had to deal with the trolls in this game making life difficult for me

I agree with Hansa here 1000 at this point in the game is a lot even if they only have 2 cored provinces they will easily get merchants into all the mercantile markets and they can only build 2 ships at a time so that money is not all going to the navy and i know i'm not playing and i really don't care but i'm just backing up hansa here

[Y2Jonathan]

Here's roughly what I figure Utrecht would use the money for in terms of catching up with Holland:

140-3 constables
200-5 merchants in 10 CoTs assuming no fails
187-Army built to force limits (5 cavalry, 8 infantry)
406-Holland's starting navy (8 carracks, 4 cogs)
933-Total

Extra ships and whatever they'd have in their treasury would easily make up the remaining 67 ducats.

Remember Uladh, this isn't the same guy either so don't hold a grudge on a country for the actions of the previous ruler. If other people who are actually playing in the game wish to weigh in, I'll be happy to read what you think.

[The-King]

1000 ducats? I'm going to side with Uladh too, I would recommend giving Utrecht 500 at the most. Holland is a rich nation because of their trade, not their census taxes. So if they were ever to get that amount of ducats it would be because they were minting their money.

[ind2bc]

Here's roughly what I figure Utrecht would use the money for in terms of catching up with Holland:

140-3 constables
200-5 merchants in 10 CoTs assuming no fails
187-Army built to force limits (5 cavalry, 8 infantry)
406-Holland's starting navy (8 carracks, 4 cogs)
933-Total

Extra ships and whatever they'd have in their treasury would easily make up the remaining 67 ducats.

Remember Uladh, this isn't the same guy either so don't hold a grudge on a country for the actions of the previous ruler. If other people who are actually playing in the game wish to weigh in, I'll be happy to read what you think.

Well here's what i'd do since he is also getting trade tech 7 and i assume he can get QFTNW right away, i'd build 10 cogs, thats fairly cheap, 10 units, go straight to Asia and use that money to fund wars where Hansa would get hurt since he gets so much and the 3 constables can be easily built as he probably makes at least 50 ducats a year

[Y2Jonathan]

1000 ducats? I'm going to side with Uladh too, I would recommend giving Utrecht 500 at the most. Holland is a rich nation because of their trade, not their census taxes. So if they were ever to get that amount of ducats it would be because they were minting their money.

Thank you, I was waiting for someone to give a logical reason if I'm going to make a change. I actually was considering reducing it to 500 already. While I still feel like it's not actually enough to catch up to Holland's level based on the date we reached, it makes a lot of sense that Holland would never reach this treasury level. Plus, I already boosted trade tech to level 7 so that's quite a bit of income used anyway. Would a 500 ducat treasury be acceptable to everyone?

I also went ahead and de-occupied Utrecht's provinces since it makes it easier to see the economic situation when trying to figure out economic changes. Besides, they were under protection upon annexation of Holland so I'm not certain as to why they were occupied anyway.

[Zmieczemiogniem]

I think it's fine considering Holland had all of those things built, so the new player should be given the neccesary funds to be able to catch up. What kind of money he makes afterwards should be used for what ever he wants, but not toward bringing himself up to where the previous player was, although granted you gave him 7 trade.

[englishbyz]

Hey guys, I'll play Holland with 500 or 1000 ducats but I'd thought I'd way in on it. Although Holland can become pretty successful with shrewd trading, I am taking on a very vulnerable nation. I'm not sure where I will be expanding, but until I actually build a solid military and navy, I won't be going anywhere. If I played Holland from the beginning, I would have already have built the constables, sent merchants, and construct a military. I LOST A LOT of potential income that I could have made through trade at this point, and I assume I don't have any or many placed merchants. I'll let you guys decide on what's fairest for the game, but the money is crucial to the rebuilding.

[KL3MZ]

I kind of a agree to what he said on merchants. Just check what our free trade guyz have and convert it into a suitable sum he should have had spent (including sending merchants)

Or rather have a calculation based on income then a random number like 500 or 1k.

At least there is a basis, just make an average of what income each trade nation has, and convert it.

It sounds easyer to say then to do. Now I believe utrech + holland is bigger then what the other guy left so. I have no idea how that calculation would go.

I suggest giving just enough for the average army, navy, and merchants. Its fair, and its still very early, so if no one feels like taking holland up without having a big advantage, then we can do without holland i believe.

[Vainfall]

reading all the posts in this thread about holland makes me wish i could come in as holland and start being awesome

[ind2bc]

Thank you, I was waiting for someone to give a logical reason if I'm going to make a change. I actually was considering reducing it to 500 already. While I still feel like it's not actually enough to catch up to Holland's level based on the date we reached, it makes a lot of sense that Holland would never reach this treasury level. Plus, I already boosted trade tech to level 7 so that's quite a bit of income used anyway. Would a 500 ducat treasury be acceptable to everyone?

I also went ahead and de-occupied Utrecht's provinces since it makes it easier to see the economic situation when trying to figure out economic changes. Besides, they were under protection upon annexation of Holland so I'm not certain as to why they were occupied anyway.

You are the GM and you don't need someone to rebuke what you said before you change it if you come to the conclusion that it is what should be done

[englishbyz]

I personally feel I need as much as possible to rebuild the navy, military, trade, etc. Either way, I'll see you all tomorrow

[spyker92]

I'm good with both 500 and 1000. Being a receiver of this kinda thing previously, no matter the amount of money you get, it never seems enough to the recepiant, especially for lower quality players like myself who like to make stupid decisions. . Personally think the trade tech, government swap and slider moves are/were *far* more important.

[ind2bc]

I'm good with both 500 and 1000. Being a receiver of this kinda thing previously, no matter the amount of money you get, it never seems enough to the recepiant, especially for lower quality players like myself who like to make stupid decisions. . Personally think the trade tech, government swap and slider moves are/were *far* more important.

haha nailed why the liberal agenda will never work

[Uladh88]

is the new player getting all the territory uthrech has converted to holland and trade tech 7? and 500-1000 gold, dam im went for trade 7 to get a head start in colinizing and now the guy who trolled me with war and lost is going to be on an equal footing, im sorry but i may have to DOW holland and use a naval blockade to stop him getting out to colinize as early as me

[Y2Jonathan]

is the new player getting all the territory uthrech has converted to holland and trade tech 7? and 500-1000 gold, dam im went for trade 7 to get a head start in colinizing and now the guy who trolled me with war and lost is going to be on an equal footing, im sorry but i may have to DOW holland and use a naval blockade to stop him getting out to colinize as early as me

I won't take gm action to inhibit what you want to do in the game. I've simply done what I think is fair to get Utrecht into a playable position.