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[Forum Game] - Crisis in the Reichstag

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Gentlemen, remember we work for the German nation and its people, we should stop this partisan bickering and name calling and instead do our jobs, and work to better our great nation!

We all, and the German people believe that it is in our nation's best interest to tend to and expand our nation's economy, 46% of people believing that this is our nations most important issue. I, and my coalition, will strive to make economic policy the cornerstone of our policy agenda.

The issue of foreign threats is another issue that troubles the German people, with 36% of people believing this to be an area of primary concern. Again foreign policy is delicate matter, one that must be handled with the utmost tact and care, but also an area that requires strength on land as well as the sea. Our main goal will thus necessarily be one of rapprochement and one that strives to diffuse the Growing tensions between the powers.

It appears that colonial and naval policy will be major areas of contention, as will reform. In these areas the Kaiser, the coalition, and myself believe that a program moderate naval expansion and colonial improvement, insofaras improving colonial effeciency and usefulness, are necessary. We also believe that some moderate reform might be necessary to strengthen and unite our nation.

I would like to thank the German people for their continued support for Zentrum and my chancellorship. I hope that in time support for the coalition will grow. However, it should be noted that such a coalition was forced through the increased radicalization of parliament following the last elections, signaling both a need for some moderate reform and the need to return towards a more centrist political mood, such that the government can deliver the will of the people. Finally, we ask that the current parliament work together for the betterment of the German nation and its people!

~Reinhart von und zu Birkenfeld, Chancellor of the German Empire
 
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First of all i must say that i am most honoured to be chosen to represent the navy, i will encourage the expansion and development of our navy as needed to protect the interests and needs of our nation, whiout an over-expansion that could damage our economy.

I thank the Chancellor and the Kaiser for this opportunity, and i promise to do my best at administrating the imperial navy and ensuring that it remains one of the world's most powerful navies.
 
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I elect to state that this proposal is insufficient for the betterment of the worker's lot. A naval force is not necessary, and neither is oppressing foreign people. Furthermore, the current state of things must be reformed as it is a tenuous and antiquarian structure. The monarchy of today is an antiquated form of rule, with the monarch capable of overruling the decisions of his more competent colleagues at his own whim. I shall work for the betterment of society as a whole, no matter what stands in front of me. All obstacles which stand in the way, right in the middle of the road, will eventually be run down by the unstoppable train of history, the remnants laid to rot on the railtracks. However, history is not railroaded down a specific set of tracks, it is up to the people to make things happen.

To come back to my original point, we should not contemplate our naval forces. We should contemplate the lot of the worker. Improve his lot. Make it more than just a parking lot for his bosses to exploit. This is a lot to be done, but it must be done. Every human should be equal. Every human is a human. The only ones who are inhuman are the oppressors. They and their jingoism would lead to terrible happenings. Some of them would probably want to mow me down for speaking the truth, but I say it as it is. It is true that my opinion is viewed as radical, but so be it. Society needs to change radically if we are to get anywhere with this train which currently seems to be running short on fuel. That fuel is all going to fuel the hungry war machines of imperialists.

I restate my opinion that the yellow society of today is untenable, and will eventually cause a disaster that will lay a black cloud over the world, blacking out the light. I will come white and state that my opinion might be radical, and anybody who has red this will probably think so. However, orange you glad that you are here? That somebody did not blue your home and yourself into oblivion? Colour me confused, but I wonder why there are so many who wants to dye for the continued oppression of their fellow men. Germany is a colourful place, but it is not a peasful one. We must give peas a chance!

- Kavehe Kalemburer
 
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Dyranum said:
I elect to state that this proposal is insufficient for the betterment of the worker's lot. A naval force is not necessary, and neither is oppressing foreign people. Furthermore, the current state of things must be reformed as it is a tenuous and antiquarian structure. The monarchy of today is an antiquated form of rule, with the monarch capable of overruling the decisions of his more competent colleagues at his own whim. I shall work for the betterment of society as a whole, no matter what stands in front of me. All obstacles which stand in the way, right in the middle of the road, will eventually be run down by the unstoppable train of history, the remnants laid to rot on the railtracks. However, history is not railroaded down a specific set of tracks, it is up to the people to make things happen.

To come back to my original point, we should not contemplate our naval forces. We should contemplate the lot of the worker. Improve his lot. Make it more than just a parking lot for his bosses to exploit. This is a lot to be done, but it must be done. Every human should be equal. Every human is a human. The only ones who are inhuman are the oppressors. They and their jingoism would lead to terrible happenings. Some of them would probably want to mow me down for speaking the truth, but I say it as it is. It is true that my opinion is viewed as radical, but so be it. Society needs to chnge radically if we are to get anywhere with this train which currently seems to be running short on fuel. That fuel is all going to fuel the hungry war machines of imperialists.

I restate my opinion that the yellow society of today is untenable, and will eventually cause a disaster that will lay a black cloud over the world, blacking out the light. I will come white and state that my opinion might be radical, and anybody who has red this will probably think so. However, orange you glad that you are here? That somebody did not blue your home and yourself into oblivion? Colour me confused, but I wonder why there are so many who wants to dye for the continued oppression of their fellow men. Germany is a colourful place, but it is not a peasful one. We must give peas a chance!

- Kavehe Kalemburer
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"I think we should contemplate the navy more than we contemplate almost anything else. Even myself not being a navy man, I can see that the navy is one of the most important aspects of our entire nation. Without a nation, we have no colonies - with no colonies, no prestige, and with no prestige, we are worth nothing to the other nations of the world. The worker will fall even lower than he already has. With no navy, the people of this nation will have no protection from foreign powers. Even the Army is powerless without a navy.

If I would like to quote Admiral Fisher from our friends in the United Kingdom, 'The Army is to be a projectile fired by the Navy'."

~ V. Chancellor Friedrich von Weiss
 
The United Kingdom is an island, the Reich is not. The great land border of the Reich necessitates a strong army, which has historically been true, while a navy has historically been redundant. I see no reason why this has changed. Furthermore, no one has stated that the Reich should not be a nation, or without a navy, merely that the great expansion of the navy is needless. I therefore motion that my dear colleague the Vice Chancellor is a nincompoop.

~H.C.A
 
MastahCheef117 said:
"I think we should contemplate the navy more than we contemplate almost anything else. Even myself not being a navy man, I can see that the navy is one of the most important aspects of our entire nation. Without a nation, we have no colonies - with no colonies, no prestige, and with no prestige, we are worth nothing to the other nations of the world. The worker will fall even lower than he already has. With no navy, the people of this nation will have no protection from foreign powers. Even the Army is powerless without a navy.

If I would like to quote Admiral Fisher from our friends in the United Kingdom, 'The Army is to be a projectile fired by the Navy'."

~ V. Chancellor Friedrich von Weiss
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I fail to see how having a navy equates being a nation. I also fail to see what colonies have that correlates with being prestigeful. Being a nation of equality would be a very prestigeful thing. Oppressing others is not prestigeful. Furthermore, Germany would not need a navy if it were not for the fact that it is obvious that the German state is a very antagonistic and jingoistic one. Therefore, lettuce create a more peasful society, for the good of all.

As for the Army, such a thing should serve the people, not the state, and its existence should solely be to protect the people. Therefore, an army is not powerless without a navy. If it has no power, then that is a completely separate complication that is, however, unrelated to the subject of the subtraction of a navy. I fail to see your point, Sir, it seems to have been blunted by either disingenuousness or some error in your calculations, making it quite pointless, don't you think?

- Kavehe Kalemburer
 
Muskeato said:
The United Kingdom is an island, the Reich is not. The great land border of the Reich necessitates a strong army, which has historically been true, while a navy has historically been redundant. I see no reason why this has changed. Furthermore, no one has stated that the Reich should not be a nation, or without a navy, merely that the great expansion of the navy is needless. I therefore motion that my dear colleague the Vice Chancellor is a nincompoop.

~H.C.A
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"I was not advocating for a massive expansion of the navy that will likely drain our treasury of millions of marks all for naught. I was simply countering Herr Kalemburer's statement that the "navy is useless" (paraphrasing). We will need an adequate navy to guard our overseas territories and colonies both in Africa and the Pacific, and with foreign nations' navies constantly expanding and upgrading, we will need to counter this at least marginally in order to secure the possessions of our nation safely."

~ V. Chancellor Friedrich von Weiss
 
My dear Mr. von Weiss,

although I appreciate your willingness for a reasonable debate, I have to admit that I feel more than just slightly worried by the fact, that you are already completely trapped in your imperialist "logic".

At first you and your colleagues told us that we need colonies. When being asked for what reason, you told us because "others have some too". Now that we have colonies, you tell us that we have to spend a decent amount of our national wealth in order to defend our colonies from foreign threats. A situation that would not have evolved if we had avoided establishing colonies in the first place.

This kind of logic of constant upgrading our forces and thus upsetting our neighbors for no rational reason is the way that leads us directly into confrontation and maybe even war. As a man, who does not want to be responsible for a policy, that may send thousands or maybe even tens of thousands of german sons to early graves, I have to urge you to alter your agenda this instant, unless you are willing to take the full responsibility for the consequences of these actions.

Konrad Otto Weber
 
Muskeato said:
The United Kingdom is an island, the Reich is not. The great land border of the Reich necessitates a strong army, which has historically been true, while a navy has historically been redundant. I see no reason why this has changed. Furthermore, no one has stated that the Reich should not be a nation, or without a navy, merely that the great expansion of the navy is needless. I therefore motion that my dear colleague the Vice Chancellor is a nincompoop.

~H.C.A
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The difference is now we won't only be fighting nations with a land border with us. We will be fighting nations we can only reach by sea. You may all say "but we won't have a war if we're smart". a war is coming whether you like it or not. "Hope for the best prepare for the worst".

His Royal and Imperial Majesty, Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany, King of Prussia
 
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I am honoured that the Kaiser has chosen to directly correspond. Of course, as pointed out by my colleague Weber, without colonies there would be no need to fight at sea at all. We do not pretend that war will not come, but we do not agree with hastening it.

~H.C.A
 
Muskeato said:
I am honoured that the Kaiser has chosen to directly correspond. Of course, as pointed out by my colleague Weber, without colonies there would be no need to fight at sea at all. We do not pretend that war will not come, but we do not agree with hastening it.

~H.C.A
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So you do agree with losing it? Colonies are not the reason. The reason is to stop our coastal cities being bombarded, our enemies landing troops behind our lines and therefore, defeat.

His Royal and Imperial Majesty, Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany, King of Prussia
 
Germany has no need for colonies. That is all.

~H.C.A
 
Muskeato said:
Germany has no need for colonies. That is all.

~H.C.A
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Do you agree that we need a navy? As for colonies we already have them. What do you suggest we do? Abandon them?

His Royal and Imperial Majesty, Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany, King of Prussia
 
The Reich has one of the most substantial navies in the world. Increasing it further would break our already straining finances.

~H.C.A
 
Muskeato said:
The Reich has one of the most substantial navies in the world. Increasing it further would break our already straining finances.

~H.C.A
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"In times like this, Herr Andersen, ships must be constantly overhauled and upgraded in standardized periods and cycles, so as to keep them on par with newer ships in foreign navies. When they become too old for any use, they are scrapped - and nowadays, with dreadnoughts, all of our predreandought ships are now outdated and should be scrapped. They constitute [most likely over] half of our battleship strength, and they are nearly useless in battle against standard dreadnoughts. Thus, by pure estimating alone, I suppose that we have about a quarter of the naval strength of the British, probably less. We possess only a handful of battlecruisers, and our dreadnoughts would be outfought in a battle with all of Britain's dreadnoughts. We must, again, even marginally, continue to expand our navy to compete with the Royal Navy or, at the very least, the Russians or the French."

~ V. Chancellor von Weiss
 
MastahCheef117 said:
"In times like this, Herr Andersen, ships must be constantly overhauled and upgraded in standardized periods and cycles, so as to keep them on par with newer ships in foreign navies. When they become too old for any use, they are scrapped - and nowadays, with dreadnoughts, all of our predreandought ships are now outdated and should be scrapped. They constitute [most likely over] half of our battleship strength, and they are nearly useless in battle against standard dreadnoughts. Thus, by pure estimating alone, I suppose that we have about a quarter of the naval strength of the British, probably less. We possess only a handful of battlecruisers, and our dreadnoughts would be outfought in a battle with all of Britain's dreadnoughts. We must, again, even marginally, continue to expand our navy to compete with the Royal Navy or, at the very least, the Russians or the French."

~ V. Chancellor von Weiss
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Torpedo boats - Cheap and effective, especially when defending coastal areas (purportedly the reason for naval expansion). If our navy is designed to protect our coast, I advocate the development of more advanced torpedo boats, rather than your 'white elephants' the dreadnoughts, which merely waste valuable resources.

~H.C.A
 
Muskeato said:
Torpedo boats - Cheap and effective, especially when defending coastal areas (purportedly the reason for naval expansion). If our navy is designed to protect our coast, I advocate the development of more advanced torpedo boats, rather than your 'white elephants' the dreadnoughts, which merely waste valuable resources.

~H.C.A
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Torpedo Boats cannot effectively defeat, or even slow down an enemy dreadnought fleet with a sufficient Destroyer screen. Since most other navies have a sufficient destroyer screen Torpedo Boats will not be able to damage them. As for Dreadnoughts, they on the other hand can effectively defeat enemy dreadnought fleets.

His Royal and Imperial Majesty, Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany, King of Prussia
 
Muskeato said:
Torpedo boats - Cheap and effective, especially when defending coastal areas (purportedly the reason for naval expansion). If our navy is designed to protect our coast, I advocate the development of more advanced torpedo boats, rather than your 'white elephants' the dreadnoughts, which merely waste valuable resources.

~H.C.A
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"Torpoedo boats, though effective for close-to-shore defense against smaller vessels, will not stand a chance when they stumble across an entire line of dreadnoughts, no matter how many we possess. Not only this, but one-hundred torpedo boats will cost just as much to construct, man, and maintain as one dreadnought, yet will do much less in the way of combating a dreadnought battle line like that possessed by the United Kingdom. Not only this, but the enemy will likely possess their own numbers of torpedo boats, as well as faster, more powerful light cruisers, as well as short-range aircraft, to scout out the field in order to find our invincible fleet of torpedo boats. Not to mention that a nation that possesses a fleet of dreadnoughts will appear much more formidable - and therefore may deter war against smaller nations - than a nation that possesses a fleet of torpedo boats, no matter their speed or firepower."

~ V. Chancellor von Weiss
 
MastahCheef117 said:
"Torpoedo boats, though effective for close-to-shore defense against smaller vessels, will not stand a chance when they stumble across an entire line of dreadnoughts, no matter how many we possess. Not only this, but one-hundred torpedo boats will cost just as much to construct, man, and maintain as one dreadnought, yet will do much less in the way of combating a dreadnought battle line like that possessed by the United Kingdom. Not only this, but the enemy will likely possess their own numbers of torpedo boats, as well as faster, more powerful light cruisers, as well as short-range aircraft, to scout out the field in order to find our invincible fleet of torpedo boats. Not to mention that a nation that possesses a fleet of dreadnoughts will appear much more formidable - and therefore may deter war against smaller nations - than a nation that possesses a fleet of torpedo boats, no matter their speed or firepower."

~ V. Chancellor von Weiss
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I will not reply to idiocy

~H.C.A
 
Muskeato said:
I will not reply to idiocy

~H.C.A
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How is this idiocy?

His Royal and Imperial Majesty, Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany, King of Prussia
 
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