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Thread: Poll: Would you pay 2€/2$ now for a addon, which unlocks new skills, buildings,items?

  1. #21
    Anyone who has played haven and hearth would not go for this. I would not endorse it 1 penny, I would just go back to haven and hearth. And plus isnt there like 3 other threads about this?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by villagegirl View Post
    Anyone who has played haven and hearth would not go for this. I would not endorse it 1 penny, I would just go back to haven and hearth. And plus isnt there like 3 other threads about this?
    It`s quite interesting how often I hear references to h&h in most threads of Salem. I understand most players come from there, and they point that out in their posts. But what should I read out of the fact, that most players here have a h&h background? Do they think that makes them more qualified in commenting on Salem? They would be the most competent people helping to develop H&H2. But Salem isn`t H&H2. I understand that those players try to preserv most of H&H things they know and put them into Salem, but that needn`t to be a good thing for Salem! As I understand the devs Salem should be a different game with much more players and f2p. So those H&H players have a unique view on Salem coming from H&H which could make it harder for them to keep an open mind for new things.

    It`s also quite logical for a developer not to have two identical games in their portfolio. Maybe H&H stays hardcore pvp and Salem gets something like pvp light - okay - that`s better then having to hardcore pvp games in portfolio so every player can choose his playstyle.

    And: there is one different thread to this, which is linked in the OP, giving some background info to this poll.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
    It`s quite interesting how often I hear references to h&h in most threads of Salem. I understand most players come from there, and they point that out in their posts. But what should I read out of the fact, that most players here have a h&h background? Do they think that makes them more qualified in commenting on Salem? They would be the most competent people helping to develop H&H2. But Salem isn`t H&H2. I understand that those players try to preserv most of H&H things they know and put them into Salem, but that needn`t to be a good thing for Salem! As I understand the devs Salem should be a different game with much more players and f2p. So those H&H players have a unique view on Salem coming from H&H which could make it harder for them to keep an open mind for new things.

    It`s also quite logical for a developer not to have two identical games in their portfolio. Maybe H&H stays hardcore pvp and Salem gets something like pvp light - okay - that`s better then having to hardcore pvp games in portfolio so every player can choose his playstyle.

    And: there is one different thread to this, which is linked in the OP, giving some background info to this poll.
    The HnH player try to make a HnH 2.0 out of Salem. But when it comes to paying they just say "I'm not playing it I'm going back to HnH". So in the end, they try to create game they do not want to play or pay for.
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  4. #24
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    the thing is that many HnH players have heard what devs have said since the beginning of last year. like what is their intention, their plan and so on. (just skip all others posts because this is a real long thread now)

    anyways, if you could read what jorb(Brother Bean, here) said in the above linked thread, you can see that it is devs who decided to go with a cash shop where you can buy silver from. also, they said they wanted to make Salem playable for those who do not pay and there should be no items you could not obtain by playing. (of course, that can be changed if Paradox insists, i guess.)

    the point of this, imo, is that they are seeking for a balance between hardcore players (or if you prefer, no-lifers, players who stay at pc 24/7) and those rather casual or casual-ish players with work and money to spend, but without time to spend in game.

    those who can play a lot longer than others do not have to buy anything and supply things instead for silver and items you can only buy from the Company.
    those who cannot play long enough but have some money to spend can either buy items from the Company and/or from other players with the silver they buy from the cash shop Paradox is setting up.
    sure there will be players who play long and still buy silver and try to advance further and faster than others, and this is where devs efforts coming in, to try not to make the gap too big, and prevent it from making it pay to win. (now you know why Salem has got these inspirationals and gluttony system. purity fix is also to prevent the too big gap, i believe, but im not sure.)

    what devs are trying to do is to give all players the equal ground no matter if you pay or not. and all your testing and practices are contributing them to decide the best balance and each item price including silver price, i think, in order to make neither side going too overpowered.

    finally, i do not think devs are interested in limiting the feature by money you pay. and many HnH players, who have read what devs said, understand that part, i think.


    @siis,
    ive read enough of your opinions like that. would you please refrain from such posts?
    what is so incredible here is how some of you really love to label others however you can, and always try to divide the small community.
    Last edited by Tonkyhonk; 22-06-2012 at 14:20.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkyhonk View Post
    @siis,
    ive read enough of your opinions like that. would you please refrain from such posts?
    what is so incredible here is how some of you really love to label others however you can, and always try to divide the small community.
    Yes, there are some people who try to divide the community, most of them use rather vulgar language.
    Since you are dircetly pointing at me, I would prefer if we discuss this with pms. I'm not sure if the mods would like to see us both debating with each other in this thread.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkyhonk View Post
    the thing is that many HnH players have heard what devs have said since the beginning of last year. like what is their intention, their plan and so on. (just skip all others posts because this is a real long thread now)

    anyways, if you could read what jorb(Brother Bean, here) said in the above linked thread, you can see that it is devs who decided to go with a cash shop where you can buy silver from. also, they said they wanted to make Salem playable for those who do not pay and there should be no items you could not obtain by playing. (of course, that can be changed if Paradox insists, i guess.)

    (...)

    finally, i do not think devs are interested in limiting the feature by money you pay. and many HnH players, who have read what devs said, understand that part, i think.
    Thx for the link! I think the devs first impuls was to go with a cash shop - and this wouldn`t be the worst to happen, if it is designed correctly. But there has been no answer yet to a very, very important question: How is all that silver, coming into play every day, getting out of it again? Ingame economy will be killed one week after start if there is no mechanism which keeps the amount of money stable in a way that it increases a 3-5% a (rl)-year. If there is no mechanism, there will be massive inflation. Your goods will double in value if you log out monday and come back friday, but your money will be worthless. You, everyone will have to buy even more money in cash shop making everything happen even more faster....

    So...since there is no answer to this flaw in cash-shop logic it may not be a bad idea to present some alternatives like a item shop or a Micro-Addon-business-modell like I suggested.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
    But there has been no answer yet to a very, very important question: How is all that silver, coming into play every day, getting out of it again?
    There's already many methods of "removing it from the game." Village upkeep is one. I've heard discussion of upkeep on personal claims, too. There's already a couple of one-time use items on the store and several non-renewable resources to dispose of silver. I'm sure more will get added as things go along.

    Another point to consider is how silver is going to get into the game. Currently you farm it, but the devs still haven't decided how much of that will remain, but it certainly won't remain at the current levels.

  8. #28
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    what MagicMan said above.
    another thing im concerned is unofficial RMT that players will meet sooner or later.
    i wonder how paradox is planning to deal with gold...oops, i mean, "silver"-farming third parties.


    Quote Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
    So...since there is no answer to this flaw in cash-shop logic it may not be a bad idea to present some alternatives like a item shop or a Micro-Addon-business-modell like I suggested.
    like i said, you may want to convince either devs or paradox staff if you want such things for salem.
    fyi, our devs dont listen to "democracy"
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkyhonk View Post
    fyi, our devs dont listen to "democracy"
    This poll isn`t about democracy. It`s about how player base would accept different business concepts.

    And I think it`s a good basis, if 1/4 of community is willing to spend 2€ for micro-expansions. Because: What do you think, how much of those voted for "No" are actually believing they can circumvent any payment by stealing items or silver from other players, who paid for it? So while there is 1/4 of community saying: "I will pay", there is 3/4 of community only saying "Maybe I will pay - if i can`t get around it". So first reflex is understandably to prevent any business model which makes everyone to pay sooner or later. (in these regards the actual result is really amazing to me).

    But from a business point of view: those 1/4 willing to pay may generate more income than those 3/4 with there maybe attitude.

    @MagicMan: If you are right, and those out-factors are in line with those in-factors everything is fine and I could move the cash-shop to my most prefered business concept. But, if you are wrong, the game will be dead after 4-8 weeks.

    Do we have any basis of experience? Only by looking to other games: STO needed to introduce a new currency because first currency is worthless. Eve is doing quite well, but has no/one in-factors and more out-factors, as massive amounts of ingame curreny is destroyed in pvp. Assets in Salem will stay after your char is lost. Do you know a f2p game which has a cash shop and is doing quite well?

    Could we test a cash shop? I don`t see how. If you make an open beta with cash shop it wouldn`t be realistic settings, as there would be a reset and most won`t buy ingame currency in that case.
    Can we adjust it while the game runs? Maybe. How will player react if the devs are forced to double or tripple upkeep on personal claims? Will players stay if you need them to buy ingame currency from the start, if farming is disabled? Most of those one-time items, which now are working as a out factor are craftable. And if they wouldn`t been craftable we would have pay-to-win.

    So this threads purpose is to find some arguments for different business modells, and he is doing fine I`m sure "our" devs will listen to arguments.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
    I`m sure "our" devs will listen to arguments.
    sure, but your arguments will be based upon how many (will) say yes, isnt it?
    also,
    Quote Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
    And I think it`s a good basis, if 1/4 of community is willing to spend 2€ for micro-expansions. Because: What do you think, how much of those voted for "No" are actually believing they can circumvent any payment by stealing items or silver from other players, who paid for it? So while there is 1/4 of community saying: "I will pay", there is 3/4 of community only saying "Maybe I will pay - if i can`t get around it". So first reflex is understandably to prevent any business model which makes everyone to pay sooner or later. (in these regards the actual result is really amazing to me).
    this ruins your whole argument. youre trying to convince others with your subjective assumption, or your own discretion.

    you will need to show more "convincing" reasons how superior your business model is compared to what devs have in mind.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by siis View Post
    The HnH player try to make a HnH 2.0 out of Salem. But when it comes to paying they just say "I'm not playing it I'm going back to HnH". So in the end, they try to create game they do not want to play or pay for.
    Well me personally I would love to endorse and support salem. But there is going to be a very fine line for a lot of people. Salem is a very immersive game. You can lose yourself for hours in the game. But when you add a content cap, its like "Oh well i cant build anything else, I gotta spend more money", just kinda breaks that immersion. I would rather have the cash shop honestly over this.

    @Elcapitan1701 - They way salem plays, the content, movment, and the controls all feel and look like H&H(or just a reskinned H&H). So how is one going to not feel like its H&H. and i wasnt talking about threads exactly like this, but i was talking about the "how salem could make money threads".

    1. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ney-with-Salem
    2. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-buy-with-Cash
    3. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-the-cash-shop

    Three other threads.

  12. #32
    If Salem wants to go the route of FTP, I think buying in-game coins with real money is one viable option. But also, offering items like larger backpacks, better buildings, and special items like super foods from the merchants are also good ways to make the game profitable. But please don't offer new skills and abilities as it would make the game biased against playing players, which would make free players frustrated and leave the game. The devs need to come up with some nifty ways to entice players to want to buy in-game silver. The item shop should not offer items which affect PVP.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by villagegirl View Post
    @Elcapitan1701 - They way salem plays, the content, movment, and the controls all feel and look like H&H(or just a reskinned H&H). So how is one going to not feel like its H&H. and i wasnt talking about threads exactly like this, but i was talking about the "how salem could make money threads".
    Yeah, this isn`t meant as a accusation or something like that. It`s normal - everone would act so. But it`s important to think of when you judge someone`s argument.

    @Tonkyhonk: no - I think to be a realistic alternative to cash or item shop the micro-addon-business modell needs to have a minimum support. This it has. The rest is up to the devs. I have no experience of how much of the other 3/4 really will spend money or not. If only every third players buys something for 2€ or more in cash or item shop, then those business modells will generate more income. But that`s only the income argument. While noone doubts, that small addons won`t have much impact on ingame economy, there are reasonable doubts (I hope not only by me) that ingame economy will stay intact with a cash shop (I don`t see much impact on ingame economy with an item shop).

    I also would like to hear, what devs have in mind. I know, there are some hints and early concepts of a cash shop - but nothing for sure?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesgood View Post
    But also, offering items like larger backpacks, better buildings, and special items like super foods from the merchants are also good ways to make the game profitable.
    NOOOOOO! Thats what you want to avoid. You dont want to implement anything that would allow people for an immediate advantage. Offering "super" foods will only make it so people can spend a bunch of money and make people gluttony terminator characters right off the bat.

  15. #35
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    We have plans on how to regulate the economy to provide "money-out" sources.

    As for the cash shop, it is still being designed. There will be one though.
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  16. #36
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    Thx, that`s good to hear. Can you specify what cash-shop means? Will I be able only to buy silver for cash, or will there be different things?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
    Thx, that`s good to hear. Can you specify what cash-shop means? Will I be able only to buy silver for cash, or will there be different things?
    As it looks now silver will be bought for cash and then used to spend on ingame items, just like it is now. Everything will be available for payers and non-payers. Buying silver will only save you time, nothing else.

    The balancing with the combat and purity is made to prevent that cash-shop users get overly powerful.
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  18. #38
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    Yeah - that will bring your skills instantly days before the average player meaning in a pvp and permadeath game you could kill anybody while all the others have no chance. How is this not pay-to-win?

  19. #39
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    At least make a cooldown to those bibles and all other buyable items, so they can only be used once a day or every 12h or something like that.

  20. #40
    I agree with elcapitan, saving time means pay-to-win. People that pay get skills and such earlier than everyone else. The bible either needs to be taken out. or nerfed or something. In a permadeath game giving a inspirational with cloak and dagger just seems unconventional, I believe thats what they are trying to do tho. I think with p2p games it has to be like this unfortunately. It has to tempt the consumer to pay money. I do understand that it isn't done yet so im not gonna get all "rawr the cash shop sucks" but the devs need to understand if they leave the items the way they are currently it will be p2w. I really hope they already realize it and have plans in the works. I dont think ANY inspirational should be for sale. But hey im just 1 guy

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