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Thread: Magna Mundi cancelled

  1. #501
    Benevolent Imperialist flame7926's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rannos View Post
    There's also the whole Fun2MagnaMundi scandal where some intrepid modder tried to smooth out some of MM mod's wrinkles into something more on the fun side of the fun/realism scale, which resulted in Ubik freaking out and getting the mod effectively destroyed because he didn't have "permission." An insanity that would repeat itself in this game's development when he'd jealously guard the game from other potential thieves (ie, BETA TESTERS). I wonder if that nonsense might have helped cause this?
    Wasn't it Paradox who didn't want a bigger group of beta testers?
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  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaidal View Post
    You are forgetting that he changed his tune on that one. Also, that is a strange leap, especially considering he was advocating for an open beta as I recall.
    I have a feeling that has more to do with the whole QA rejecting all their builds thing more than anything. Remember that Paradox isn't some equal party in this UV-Paradox relationship, they are Ubik's Bosses. If you were over a year past a deadline at your job, I wonder what your boss would say?

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame7926 View Post
    Wasn't it Paradox who didn't want a bigger group of beta testers?
    IIRC they took over the beta, with there testers
    Ignored: Nuril, videonfan, Pandi

  4. #504
    Benevolent Imperialist flame7926's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rannos View Post
    I have a feeling that has more to do with the whole QA rejecting all their builds thing more than anything. Remember that Paradox isn't some equal party in this UV-Paradox relationship, they are Ubik's Bosses. If you were over a year past a deadline at your job, I wonder what your boss would say?
    Well yeah, but he wasn't by any indication "jealously guarding his game from other potential thieves".
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  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by flame7926 View Post
    Wasn't it Paradox who didn't want a bigger group of beta testers?
    IIRC, they never went beyond ~20 beta testers, (of which only about three stayed active) but that was more Ubik being terrified of piracy and torrenting more than Paradox restrictions (although funding might have been a factor).

  6. #506
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    Has Ubik stated anything on this matter yet?

  7. #507
    Benevolent Imperialist flame7926's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rannos View Post
    IIRC, they never went beyond ~20 beta testers, (of which only about three stayed active) but that was more Ubik being terrified of piracy and torrenting more than Paradox restrictions (although funding might have been a factor).
    Source? I don't remember anyone saying anywhere that it was Ubik who was afraid of that and limited the beta group.
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  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame7926 View Post
    Source? I don't remember anyone saying anywhere that it was Ubik who was afraid of that and limited the beta group.
    It was said they started with 20 full time testers, and according to zoroyala(however you spell it) the numbers dwindled, and pdox took over the beta testing or some such, so they couldnt get more.
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  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by flame7926 View Post
    Source? I don't remember anyone saying anywhere that it was Ubik who was afraid of that and limited the beta group.
    IIRC, it was either the former beta testers or Ubik himself. Searching these forums to confirm is a gigantic pain in the butt though, so I cannot confirm.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1234567890m View Post
    It was said they started with 20 full time testers, and according to zoroyala(however you spell it) the numbers dwindled, and pdox took over the beta testing or some such, so they couldnt get more.
    I remember that part, but I don't recall ever seeing anything about Ubik being paranoid and not wanting more beta testers who might leak the game.
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  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Rannos View Post
    I have a feeling that has more to do with the whole QA rejecting all their builds thing more than anything.
    I meant as in he did so many months ago, before he recently advocated giving the game away for free. As for the timing, I can't remember whether it was before or after their initial deadline(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rannos View Post
    Remember that Paradox isn't some equal party in this UV-Paradox relationship, they are Ubik's Bosses. If you were over a year past a deadline at your job, I wonder what your boss would say?
    You misunderstand my intentions. I am not defending UV's lack of ability at producing a game, I'm suggesting that you should tone down the baseless speculation.

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame7926 View Post
    I

    I remember that part, but I don't recall ever seeing anything about Ubik being paranoid and not wanting more beta testers who might leak the game.
    It was k_merce IIRC he's quoted in the 2nd post of the 'sad state of affairs' tho he did say it was both pdox and UV that was paranoid
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  13. #513
    Seems like its time to go back to eu3? =(

  14. #514
    Aὐτοκράτωρ Konstantinos XV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1234567890m View Post
    It was k_merce IIRC he's quoted in the 2nd post of the 'sad state of affairs' tho he did say it was both pdox and UV that was paranoid
    To which Zolotaya later added that they wanted an open beta, but Paradox - and I'm quoting - "nixed it".

  15. #515
    Benevolent Imperialist flame7926's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konstantinos XV View Post
    To which Zolotaya later added that they wanted an open beta, but Paradox - and I'm quoting - "nixed it".
    Yeah, here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zolotaya
    UV's plans for beta were quashed by Paradox. Paradox then initiated a beta process of their own.

    Unfortunately, at this point in time, it is my understanding no further modifications of this process is allowed.
    I thought this post was interesting, in Sad state of affairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zolotaya View Post
    As I was pissed upon seeing this thread made. A breach of trust was made. I and the others are only reacting to what was done. There is a lot of blame on both sides for everything that has and has not occurred. This breach of trust was the most egregious in my eyes of things done, for reasons I will keep private at this time.
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  16. #516
    Field Marshal spl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame7926 View Post
    They could have gotten a clear set of expectations on what a release candidate should be and what is an acceptable state for release. In some of the very recent statements they didn't seem to be on the same page about this type of stuff.
    Well, I think having essential game features (diplomacy and war...) by the release date would have been a nice start. I think that was clear from day one.
    How this project survived so long in the games industry is quite confusing to me. Maybe Paradox wasn't quite ready to fill the big publisher role and start cancelling things.

  17. #517
    Uncivil Servant Velko's Avatar
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    The above-quoted posts are a good indication on how the UV communications have been a disaster ever since the Sad State thread. No unified response, no official line, but individual members of the team all posting their own stuff and bringing the dev-publisher conflict out in the open for no reason. A breach of trust? Paradox told the forum users how things were and why there were delays and ambiguity. The real breach of trust happened when Zolotaya, k_merse and others started to publicly shift the blame around and to confront the publishers openly.

    Edit: Another thing about communications. What is really needed is an unified response from UV. As things stand now, k_merse is pretty much the only one posting here. Unfortunately, he is a walking PR disaster, but as there are no other voices to be heard, he is practically taken as the official UV response. So please, if anyone at UV is reading this, think about the communications for a moment...
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  18. #518
    Field Marshal videonfan's Avatar
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    Paradox did the right thing.1 year delay?Are you kidding me?Let's not forget how Ubik reacted to criticism.And alot of uneeded feature.I don't say,diplomacy and wars were quite nice and how they implemented religion but barbary pirates?That would not only annoy players but also so many features would make the game lag

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by videonfan View Post
    Paradox did the right thing.1 year delay?Are you kidding me?Let's not forget how Ubik reacted to criticism.And alot of uneeded feature.I don't say,diplomacy and wars were quite nice and how they implemented religion but barbary pirates?That would not only annoy players but also so many features would make the game lag
    I don't think the amount of features per se was the biggest problem. More like the priorization of features. Rather early on, they showed us a custom UI and all kinds of neat systems specific to Knights of St. John, a 1-province country. And yet, diplomacy and war, which one could rather easily describe as the core of the game, did not exist until this year...
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  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by k_merse View Post
    I always adored this type of comments, because they are just barfing it here that it's ugly, but they never can say then what's exactly their problem with it. Or if they see some actual screenshots, they just remain silent...
    Well, you know, apart from the constant constructive criticism in the developer diaries and other threads. I guess the gentle humming of the magnadrones made you forget that though. It's not even a question of our comments being particularly insightful, they were honestly just UI Design 101, but you know what? That's still better than what we've seen from the developers. I do not recall a single argument for your design decisions that was not just "We/I think it looks good". Now usually that's alright, because the basic fundamentals of the UI are sound, but the MM UI never reached that level. I'm not talking about "graphics" as the magnadrones think them, which is basically just a strawman. Lacking HD GraphicsTM is not the issue, lacking readability is. I've simply seen no evidence that anyone on the team understands this.

    And before anyone calls me a troll (well, who am I kidding, you probably are gonna do that anyway), I absolutely adored MMtM. The map was such a huge improvement over vanilla EU3 that it's hard to believe, despite it obviously just working within the confines of the same engine. Which really goes to show that it's the design and not the resolution of textures that matters. The gameplay was also refreshingly challenging, and it just felt better to me, and practically ruined me for any other version of EU3.

    Which just goes to show how far the team has fallen in my eyes. I loved the mod and yet I'm not surprised to see the game crashing and burning, nor am I particularly sad about it. From the first mention of MMtG to now has just been a constant decline in expectations, from the high point of what I imagined to the realization that the developers had lost their bearings without the constraints of not being able to modify the engine. If anything this is a perfect example of what a lack of professionalism leads to. Which is honestly not only the MM team's fault, Paradox does carry some responsibility for letting things go as far as they did, but they're also in a transitory state between being pretty niche developers with a more relaxed attitude to bugs to more professional developers that are asserting themselves as "proper" studio. Paradox is rightfully trying to shed the reputation for releasing buggy titles that you should maybe only buy after the first expansion, and if they can keep up the quality of CK2 in future releases (and why shouldn't they?) then I think that old reputation will soon be a thing of the past. Releasing MMtCode would not be in the interest of this goal though.

    I also have to echo the comments that UV has been extremely unprofessional in their communication. It doesn't matter if you think Paradox could have paid you more or whatever, fact is that you were working for them and your communication reflects back on Paradox.

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