+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Fixing Fractured Government in Japan - Help please.

  1. #1
    General Big Nev's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron III Collection

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tellus, Sol III, Mutter's Spiral
    Posts
    2,128

    Fixing Fractured Government in Japan - Help please.

    Iím thinking that the little coloured dots next to the portraits indicate which party the leader belongs to.

    But all my cabinet are grey or dark grey. Do I need to assign some blue &/or red ministers. The problem is, I canít find any.

    Is Japan stuck with a fractured government?

  2. #2
    Field Marshal CplKatie's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIHearts of Iron IIISemper Fi500k club

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    3,907
    It doesn't hurt you I dont think does it? You have a law with the reverse effect in action...repression or something, I dont have a japan game going right now but I'm pretty sure its just a tooltip annoyance at best.

  3. #3
    General Big Nev's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron III Collection

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tellus, Sol III, Mutter's Spiral
    Posts
    2,128
    Hi CplKatie.

    A very fast response.

    Well... no. It doesn’t seem to hurt, but it is annoying. Sometimes it’s red & sometimes it’s green but my National Unity doesn’t change from 70% no matter what I do.

    But I’m right that I should use some colour in my cabinet? There just doesn’t seem to be any.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal CplKatie's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIHearts of Iron IIISemper Fi500k club

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    3,907
    Its one of those features that applies to all nations but really only matters to democracies. Dictators and communists have civil laws that counter it so they didn't see a need to write extra code to bypass it.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal xtfoster's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonDarkest HourFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest Hour
    Semper Fi

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Payson, AZ USA
    Posts
    3,548
    Quote Originally Posted by CplKatie View Post
    Its one of those features that applies to all nations but really only matters to democracies. Dictators and communists have civil laws that counter it so they didn't see a need to write extra code to bypass it.
    That's not 100% accurate. If you have something else affecting your unity (like Foreign Spies, Convoy Raiding, or Strategic Bombing) then also having the Fractured Government modifier will matter (because the Civil Laws will be mitigating that in addition to the other modifiers).
    Beta Tester: HOI2-DD Armageddon 1.3 Patch
    Team Member: Darkest Hour (on Hiatus for School and other projects)

    I am an American, not a United Statian, United Stater, USAian or any other PC alternative, live with it.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal CplKatie's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIHearts of Iron IIISemper Fi500k club

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    3,907
    Quote Originally Posted by xtfoster View Post
    That's not 100% accurate. If you have something else affecting your unity (like Foreign Spies, Convoy Raiding, or Strategic Bombing) then also having the Fractured Government modifier will matter (because the Civil Laws will be mitigating that in addition to the other modifiers).
    Its 99.9% accurate. The only thing that Fractured government did was add a sliver to the top of all the unity hits. The Propaganda press and the better press law, both would shave that sliver off, and in the top notch press law, you'd still have mitigation to your unity hits. Whereas a democracy at best will always suffer from fractured government alone and would amplify with unity hits. Fractured government is completely unimportant to a dictator/communist nation. Game mechanics wise it makes sense, and in reality it made sense, ofcourse a dictator doesn't have to worry about fulfilling political party roles...he can have them killed. Democracies are what this effect was meant for.

  7. #7
    Convicted Drive-by Poster Pro_Consul's Avatar
    EU3 CompleteFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourVictoria: Revolutions
    Semper FiSword of the StarsMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordPride of Nations500k club

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,055
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Nev View Post
    Is Japan stuck with a fractured government?
    This question appears to have gone unanswered, but the answer is "No, you are not stuck with it". You can put your domestic spies to supporting your party in power, which will reduce the support of all other parties, eventually reducing them to the point that no party but the one in power has high enough support to demand a cabinet position. When that happens the fractured government modifier will go away and stay gone. Be warned, though, it takes a long time sometimes and is best done from the beginning of the game.

    Edit: but of course CK is also right that you need to evaluate whether it is worth bothering to this much trouble to remove a penalty when it might be having negligible net effect on your nation.

    In fact, I use this little game fact as an offense tool on certain occasions. If I want a particular country to surrender more quickly due to low NU, then rather than have my spies go right at the NU mission, I first have them spend a goodly while raising the support of MY party in that country. That will almost always result in fractured government because nations in differing factions also tend to have parties in power which are ideologically aligned with that faction, meaning any party whose ideology aligns with a different faction is not going to be well represented in the pool of potential ministers. Example, USA has very few Bund ministers, so if Germany raises the Bund's support the USA will not have enough potential ministers to fill the number of posts required to avoid the penalty. Then once that penalty is likely well underway, I switch to counterespionage for a little while to clear out the domestic spies in that country (don't want them supporting their own party back up) and then I switch to lowering NU. At this point there are now two penalties being applied at the same time, the fractured govt and the direct effect of my spies. Of course attacking another country's NU only really works if you have the time to go at it long term before you even face them in battle.
    Last edited by Pro_Consul; 17-06-2012 at 18:57.
    An Englishman thinks a hundred miles is a long way. An American thinks a hundred years is a long time. I am beginning to think a hundred dollars is a lot of money. Two of these facts are interesting. All of them are revealing. But only one of them is truly pathetic.

    Member of the Ahistoric Association

  8. #8
    Field Marshal CplKatie's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIHearts of Iron IIISemper Fi500k club

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    3,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro_Consul View Post
    This question appears to have gone unanswered, but the answer is "No, you are not stuck with it". You can put your domestic spies to supporting your party in power, which will reduce the support of all other parties, eventually reducing them to the point that no party but the one in power has high enough support to demand a cabinet position. When that happens the fractured government modifier will go away and stay gone. Be warned, though, it takes a long time sometimes and is best done from the beginning of the game.

    Edit: but of course CK is also right that you need to evaluate whether it is worth bothering to this much trouble to remove a penalty when it might be having negligible net effect on your nation.

    In fact, I use this little game fact as an offense tool on certain occasions. If I want a particular country to surrender more quickly due to low NU, then rather than have my spies go right at the NU mission, I first have them spend a goodly while raising the support of MY party in that country. That will almost always result in fractured government because nations in differing factions also tend to have parties in power which are ideologically aligned with that faction, meaning any party whose ideology aligns with a different faction is not going to be well represented in the pool of potential ministers. Example, USA has very few Bund ministers, so if Germany raises the Bund's support the USA will not have enough potential ministers to fill the number of posts required to avoid the penalty. Then once that penalty is likely well underway, I switch to counterespionage for a little while to clear out the domestic spies in that country (don't want them supporting their own party back up) and then I switch to lowering NU. At this point there are now two penalties being applied at the same time, the fractured govt and the direct effect of my spies. Of course attacking another country's NU only really works if you have the time to go at it long term before you even face them in battle.1
    Good strategy for spy work. I shall try this next time I play germany. Like I mentioned though, this strategy is useless against the comintern and major's in the axis faction. I think only vichy is a democracy in the axis, everyone else will have the ability to use the press laws that counter it.

  9. #9
    Convicted Drive-by Poster Pro_Consul's Avatar
    EU3 CompleteFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourVictoria: Revolutions
    Semper FiSword of the StarsMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordPride of Nations500k club

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,055
    Quote Originally Posted by CplKatie View Post
    I think only vichy is a democracy in the axis, everyone else will have the ability to use the press laws that counter it.
    That is why I came up with the two-pronged assault on NU in the first place. If you do both things, give them fractured government and hit their NU directly with your spies, then it is too much for the -10% damping effect of a propaganda press to deal with. With the democracies the effect is more dramatic, true, but repressive regimes are not immune, just a little resistant.
    An Englishman thinks a hundred miles is a long way. An American thinks a hundred years is a long time. I am beginning to think a hundred dollars is a lot of money. Two of these facts are interesting. All of them are revealing. But only one of them is truly pathetic.

    Member of the Ahistoric Association

  10. #10
    Covert Mastermind Demi Moderator Secret Master's Avatar
    200k clubAchtung PanzerCrusader Kings IICommander: Conquest of the AmericasDeus Vult
    Europa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHearts of Iron III Collection
    Heir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineThe Kings CrusadeMagickaMarch of the Eagles
    EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengoku
    Ship Simulator ExtremesSword of the Stars IIVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    Rome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandWarlock: Master of the ArcaneMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordPride of Nations
    CK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IVCrusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    It's a secret, obviously.
    Posts
    16,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro_Consul View Post
    This question appears to have gone unanswered, but the answer is "No, you are not stuck with it". You can put your domestic spies to supporting your party in power, which will reduce the support of all other parties, eventually reducing them to the point that no party but the one in power has high enough support to demand a cabinet position. When that happens the fractured government modifier will go away and stay gone. Be warned, though, it takes a long time sometimes and is best done from the beginning of the game.
    I tend to work to remove it once I have other things taken care of domestically. I find that if I am a dictatorship and my NU is already high, then raising NU has negligible impact on NU as does fractured government. But since I find fractured government more annoying, I raise party support for a year or two to clear it out.

    This is after I've killed off enemy spies, of course.
    All Hail Him,

    The Secret Master

    Note: If I write a post in this hideous color, I am speaking as a Demi-Moderator. Paying attention is strongly advised.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal CplKatie's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIHearts of Iron IIISemper Fi500k club

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    3,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Master View Post
    I tend to work to remove it once I have other things taken care of domestically. I find that if I am a dictatorship and my NU is already high, then raising NU has negligible impact on NU as does fractured government. But since I find fractured government more annoying, I raise party support for a year or two to clear it out.

    This is after I've killed off enemy spies, of course.
    I have found recently that putting 10 spies in your puppets nations and setting them to counter espionage helps them generate enough spies to do the same to you. More often than not as the UK and Japan, I usually just leave my home spies on raise unity and let the puppet spies handle the enemy actions in my nation.

  12. #12
    Covert Mastermind Demi Moderator Secret Master's Avatar
    200k clubAchtung PanzerCrusader Kings IICommander: Conquest of the AmericasDeus Vult
    Europa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHearts of Iron III Collection
    Heir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineThe Kings CrusadeMagickaMarch of the Eagles
    EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengoku
    Ship Simulator ExtremesSword of the Stars IIVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    Rome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandWarlock: Master of the ArcaneMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordPride of Nations
    CK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IVCrusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    It's a secret, obviously.
    Posts
    16,739
    Quote Originally Posted by CplKatie View Post
    I have found recently that putting 10 spies in your puppets nations and setting them to counter espionage helps them generate enough spies to do the same to you. More often than not as the UK and Japan, I usually just leave my home spies on raise unity and let the puppet spies handle the enemy actions in my nation.
    Oh yeah, but the first 2 months of the game, most majors are so infested with spies from every 2-bit country that I can kill off 20 or more a week. I like to clean house first before putting spies in allies/puppets, raising NU, or supporting my party.

    You can get an impressive list of domestic espionage help from allies and puppets, though. It's really neat to see 7 different countries running counter espionage in your own country. It's like the United Nations has a black-ops counter-intelligence program that makes Black UN helicopters look sane in comparison.
    All Hail Him,

    The Secret Master

    Note: If I write a post in this hideous color, I am speaking as a Demi-Moderator. Paying attention is strongly advised.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal CplKatie's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIHearts of Iron IIISemper Fi500k club

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    3,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Master View Post
    Oh yeah, but the first 2 months of the game, most majors are so infested with spies from every 2-bit country that I can kill off 20 or more a week. I like to clean house first before putting spies in allies/puppets, raising NU, or supporting my party.

    You can get an impressive list of domestic espionage help from allies and puppets, though. It's really neat to see 7 different countries running counter espionage in your own country. It's like the United Nations has a black-ops counter-intelligence program that makes Black UN helicopters look sane in comparison.
    Yeah I have no problem with my own nations counter espionage, its my puppets/allies who are low leadership that I do that strategy for, I fill theirs up to 10 as well, what this does is it kills the enemy infestations in their weaker leadership nations.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Baltasar's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourEU3 CompleteFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneKing Arthur IIMagickaMarch of the EaglesSemper Fi
    SengokuSword of the StarsSword of the Stars IIStarvoidMount & Blade: Warband
    Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    3,923
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Master View Post
    Oh yeah, but the first 2 months of the game, most majors are so infested with spies from every 2-bit country that I can kill off 20 or more a week.
    That's hopefully going to change with TFH...

  15. #15
    General Big Nev's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron III Collection

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tellus, Sol III, Mutter's Spiral
    Posts
    2,128
    WOW.

    Lots of advice on how to use spies in my next game. Especially puppet’s spies. I would never have thought of that.

    As for setting my cloak & dagger brigade to reduce the opposition, I mean, support my party. I think I need to keep them on counter espionage ATM.

    Thanks very much guys.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts