Definitely agree with you on this one. To me the 'missions' in EU3 was the most important feature. I never liked sandbox games, but this helped me get into EU3, doing mission after mission gives me a sense of direction I need when I play any game.
Most Complicated unintuitive game released
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Not sure if CK2 is that hard. I think the tutorials are some of the best of all paradox games, but I did play CK1. EU2 and 3 were reasonably easy though far harder to master than CK2 I think. I never got into Rome even though I own it didnt really try it properly. Otherwise the hardest is probably Vicky 2 if you arent Laissez fair, or HOI3 if you actually dont let ai manage your armies.
There are harder games out there. For me, what I felt was harder was Vicky 1, I gave up on that one, Harpoon, loved it but it can be very complicated and havent figured out how to use tanker aircraft properly.
Then again I would never play a Paradox game without using a wiki.
Actually WoW was quite complicated for maxing dps though I just used a mod for it and some spread sheets.
I would suggest that MTW2 is strategically more challenging.
Seriously you keep playing just for fun and the penny will drop with regards to the real challenges to the game which is basically increasing the prestige of your dynasty.
I do think that, because of the lack of really deep strategic challenge, there should be more focus on the RPG side of things and a lot more events should be developed.
I'd love to MOD some event chains but I am barely computer literate
as is probably evident.
Seriously you keep playing just for fun and the penny will drop with regards to the real challenges to the game which is basically increasing the prestige of your dynasty.
I do think that, because of the lack of really deep strategic challenge, there should be more focus on the RPG side of things and a lot more events should be developed.
I'd love to MOD some event chains but I am barely computer literate
as is probably evident.
Stick with it, it has a steep learning curve at first. But as soon as you get it (shouldn't take too long) you will absolutely love it.
I learned this game by reading everything, but also by taking notes.
For instance, I have a searchable PDF based on the "Quick Answers" thread, which I receive on a weekly subscription.
I've also created two (2) advance strategy PDF's (100 pages each), arranged by article (even though I didn't understand them at first glance). These guides are made by saving a CK2 subscription to a .txt on a weekly basis, then going back to review each new topic.
With all this stuff in a single folder I can search on any topic (HRE for example) and usually come up with the answer I need.
If this game turns out like HOI3 there will eventually be a WIKI where I will post the above PDF's for future players to use.
For instance, I have a searchable PDF based on the "Quick Answers" thread, which I receive on a weekly subscription.
I've also created two (2) advance strategy PDF's (100 pages each), arranged by article (even though I didn't understand them at first glance). These guides are made by saving a CK2 subscription to a .txt on a weekly basis, then going back to review each new topic.
With all this stuff in a single folder I can search on any topic (HRE for example) and usually come up with the answer I need.
If this game turns out like HOI3 there will eventually be a WIKI where I will post the above PDF's for future players to use.
After having played EU3 extensively for a few years I didn't find CK2 that difficult or unintuitive and I didn't even bother with the tutorial, this resulted in the fact that for a couple of months of playing the game I had no idea how to join Crusades and it wasn't until I accidentally moused over the crusade banner in the top corner (Cunningly hidden behind your Realm Icon) that I worked out how to participate in them
I understand that the game's interface, whilst not particularly complicated in comparison to other paradox titles, would be confusing for a newcomer.
I understand that the game's interface, whilst not particularly complicated in comparison to other paradox titles, would be confusing for a newcomer.
I'll grant you Diablo 3 but listing Civ 5 as easy to understand and grasp is a bit unfair. While it is certainly less complex in a lot of areas then CK2 is (notably diplomacy and dynasty relations (no dynasty in Civ 5 so that's understandable) it's also vastly more complex in a lot of areas not the least of which is combat. Combat, in multiplayer especially, takes a lot of strategy and tactics neither of which is a strength or really exists in CK2 (other then, try to get them to hit you in mountains/over a river). Additionally Civ 5, as a game where you build cities, has vastly more options for customizing cities (counties equivalent in ck2) as well as more differentiation between factions (35% of factions having culture buildings is not the same as leader/civ abilities) and many more not the least of which is their technology tree which is only about 1 trillion times more complex then CK2
I'm not knocking CK2 but let's try to be reasonable and not respond to bashing with bashing.
I learned the game by reading Meneth's game guide which luckily he started writing right when I was learning to play. So every couple days I had new stuff to try and master.
Civ 5 has the most laughably inane combat in the history of that series. I've had the AI charge catapults through choke points headlong into my veteran swordsmen, move unprotected workers in range of my units for no apparent reason and try to cross water tiles using unprotected embarked units which are being menaced by my naval units.
Not to mention the fact that the whole war system is arguably broken, the AI will declare war on you when they have no chance of winning just because of the mechanic which drives them to 'win the game'. They sometimes will randomly surrender when you haven't started to attack them yet, or hopelessly hold out until they have lost almost every city.
EDIT: I can't comment on the multiplayer tactics because I've only played singleplayer, but I'd assume they'd have a lot more depth considering you are playing against real people.
I bought the original EU because no decent game had come out since Imperialism and I would have been satisfied with anything. I was very pleasantly surprised.
EU2 and Vic were my favourite games, because I had the experience of EU and because they were really easy to mod (no
whatever that means)
I skipped CK because I thought it looked too childish (sorry). CK2 I picked up because nothing interesting had come out in a while (I was reduced to playing Tropico 4 which is, I admit, rather fun). But before I bought it, I read every forum post. Come on guys, it's not that the game's unintuitive; it's that I bet you haven't referred to the manual after the one time you read it after you bought the game. But I knew that the game is larger than the manual suggests, and that the patches would alter it immensely. Perhaps the OP did not. And even I must admit that I didn't break into cold sweat when playing Tropico as I did when I went Lollard as Harold of England.
Let's all chill a bit, please.
EU2 and Vic were my favourite games, because I had the experience of EU and because they were really easy to mod (no
Code:
any_neighbor_province = {
owner = { culture = FROM }
ROOT = {
owner = { culture = PREVPREV }
}
}whatever that means)
I skipped CK because I thought it looked too childish (sorry). CK2 I picked up because nothing interesting had come out in a while (I was reduced to playing Tropico 4 which is, I admit, rather fun). But before I bought it, I read every forum post. Come on guys, it's not that the game's unintuitive; it's that I bet you haven't referred to the manual after the one time you read it after you bought the game. But I knew that the game is larger than the manual suggests, and that the patches would alter it immensely. Perhaps the OP did not. And even I must admit that I didn't break into cold sweat when playing Tropico as I did when I went Lollard as Harold of England.
Let's all chill a bit, please.
I see CK2 very much as an introduction to more "complex" titles such as Vic and EU3. Playing Paradox games is a little akin to Christmas when you were small. So much fun arises from the anticipation of playing your first game and reading AARs and watching "Let's Play" videos on YouTube. Yes it takes a little investment at the beginning but if you want to play Total War then you've just taken a wrong turning, that's all.
I must say I haven't laughed as much in playing a game as I did with CK2. And wanted to hit the screen when some nasty trickster frustrated my plans.
But an easy game? No. And the "easy" setting is anything but.
Code:
very_easy_player = {
fertility = 0.5
land_morale = 0.5
}Oh, whoopee!
Compare this with the vanilla EU3:
Code:
very_easy_player = {
global_manpower_modifier = 0.5
infantry_cost = -0.5
cavalry_cost = -0.5
artillery_cost = -0.5
bigship_cost = -0.5
lightship_cost = -0.5
galley_cost = -0.5
build_cost = -0.5
merchant_cost = -0.5
colonist_cost = -0.5
inflation_reduction = 0.5
global_revolt_risk = -3
}or vanilla Vic2
Code:
very_easy_player = {
supply_consumption = -0.5
research_points_modifier = 0.5
war_exhaustion = -0.1
leadership_modifier = 0.5
factory_output = 0.20
}At the very least, Paradox could have given new players an opinion buff or something.
I always thought the fertility increase on easy is a very double edged sword - sure, you won't go Game Over because you lack an heir, but a dozen sons aren't exactly ideal either ^^
It's like saying that all books should be written in the languages you know. I enjoy overly complicated games, so I buy PI games. You don't enjoy overly complicated games, don't buy PI games. Not that PI is known for Diablo clones, right?
You're talking about how the AI performs as opposed to the complexity of the combat system. The CK2 combat system is the person with the most numbers wins and the AI is every bit as terrible as the Civ 5 AI. Are you trying to tell me you've never had huge hordes sit there and get attrition damage? Stand around doing nothing because they have 15k guys and only ships enough for 5k and instead of breaking the army up and sending some via ship they just stand there and do nothing?
Civ 5 has a fairly complicated tactical system that with the 1 unit per tile requires some thought and planning. CK2 says I need more guys then you or I need to use ships to dodge around you etc.
After having played EU3 extensively for a few years I didn't find CK2 that difficult or unintuitive and I didn't even bother with the tutorial, this resulted in the fact that for a couple of months of playing the game I had no idea how to join Crusades and it wasn't until I accidentally moused over the crusade banner in the top corner (Cunningly hidden behind your Realm Icon) that I worked out how to participate in them
I understand that the game's interface, whilst not particularly complicated in comparison to other paradox titles, would be confusing for a newcomer.
I'm beginning to doubt my impartiality, because I began playing EUII when I was twelve or thirteen. Perhaps the pattern of game mechanics is simply imbedded in my brain.
Very few are impartial in this, because the majority have either mastered, or at least understand something of it, regardless of skill and it's hard to realise that others don't 'get it' like you do, or don't have the skills you've developed.
Started playing a week ago. First couple of hours was an intense learning curve. After that I started to get more and more into the game. Most PI games require a learning curve.
Cut them some slack, and don't get to snotty, as you said.
I think this is, in the end, though, about character or personality. Of course, Paradox should begin making tutorials asap. (What product comes without a tutorial today anyway?) But that does not conceal the general criticism here. One should, in my mind, at least expect people to refrain from creating accounts on a forum merely to make slightly whiny threads about how difficult that and this is. Be a little resourceful, look around and get your hands dirty. Whining then, is a little like cursing the weather.
I think this is, in the end, though, about character or personality. Of course, Paradox should begin making tutorials asap. (What product comes without a tutorial today anyway?) But that does not conceal the general criticism here. One should, in my mind, at least expect people to refrain from creating accounts on a forum merely to make slightly whiny threads about how difficult that and this is. Be a little resourceful, look around and get your hands dirty. Whining then, is a little like cursing the weather.