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Thread: Underground Resistance?

  1. #1
    Makassar Can Into Yurop Qymaen's Avatar
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    Underground Resistance?

    I haven't played HOI 3 for that long, but one thing I found lacking is the effectiveness of UR. IMO, UR could really be a game changing feature. Right now there are three different things UR could do. The first is "Do nothing and gather strength." The second thing is "Spawn Partisans" once the UR cell has gathered more strength. The third activity is "Spread into nearby territories." I think, and it's entirely my own opinion, that this mechanic of the game could have more effect than it does now.

    In my South Africa game I was spamming UR cells in southern and southwestern France. I also had a few cells in northern France, the Netherlands, and Greece. I had also spawned one in Tunis and when partisan units were formed they were damned lucky that the Italians didn't wipe them out and that the British were able to land troops in Tunisia and capture Libya and recapture Egypt.

    For the Tunis partisans it was luck that they succeeded, but in France and the Netherlands such tactics would fail almost immediately. So, I think that the UR mechanic should be given more abilities, so to speak. Examples including sabotaging infrastructure, lowering the resources that provinces provide to their conqueror, and sabotaging airfields, ports, etc.

    Does anyone think that this would be a good idea?
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  2. #2
    Major the kookaburra's Avatar
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    Yes I would like to see it have more playable options.
    I do see that it would be difficult to implement a really strong underground as the computer AI could spam you badly.

    The only true success I had was as GER when GBR invaded JAP. I spawned 4 UG and left them on spread. When I came back I had about 12 on the two south islands. I changed them all to Spawn Partisans and they stayed alive about 3 weeks, with a couple hiding in a corner for months.

    I would suggest allowing the strength of a base to grow beyond 1.0 to 5.0 on a jigsaw scale. That is one base alone can only grow to 1.0 but a group of four or five in close proximity could allow the middle base to grow to 2.0, the more jigsaw pieces you fit together the higher the base can grow. Kind of similar to how suppression works better if units are closer together.
    Let 2.0 to 4.0 level bases do sabotage and level 5.0 bases spawn something better than Partisans, inf or mtn or mar troops depending on terrain. A 5.0 level base would be very organised and model high levels of external support.

    The higher the level the more likely it would be to be detected too.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qymaen View Post
    one thing I found lacking is the effectiveness of UR...In my South Africa game I was spamming UR cells in southern and southwestern France. I also had a few cells in northern France, the Netherlands, and Greece. I had also spawned one in Tunis
    Seems already quite powerfull if a minor power as South Africa can generate UR in 3 countries + North Africa !

    They have a big intelligence service plus the means to supply with planes these UR in guns, ammunitions, radios, food, drugs...

    UR where created to add flavour, to give a role to GIE and to force players to keep some forces, garrisons and police in occupied countries. Not to be a second front that plays a major role in the fighting. Resistance networks made sabotage and gathered information, each time they confronted regular military forces they where quickly wiped out with big losses (with the exception of some big formations of partisans in USSR who were quasi-military).

    So they should not be more powerfull (in fact they made them more costly and longer to develop in the first patch of FTM to balance the game), but yes they could play a role in sabotage and intelligence. The next expansion Finest Hour is supposed to add some spying options, including covert operations. There was a screenshot with that new category and "covert ops points" you can accumulate in some way. So there may be a way to give this ability to UR, or that having many UR can give a bonus to these covert ops points.

    You can maybe add a suggestion about something like that in the thread Wishes for HOI3-Their Finest Hour-thread started by Chromos.

  4. #4
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    how useful are partisans and general uprisings btw?

    also, i forget, is it possible if youre a GiE to retain some of your regular troops if they escape destruction (ie: polish units that flee to britain)
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



    "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57

  5. #5
    Major the kookaburra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerMan7 View Post
    is it possible if youre a GiE to retain some of your regular troops if they escape destruction (ie: polish units that flee to britain)
    I have certainly had to sink GiE ships years after they went GiE.
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  6. #6
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    Well, let's see how good UR are.

    1) I've liberated entire countries with UR. The minimal garrisons left behind by the AI were no match for UR spam when I took the time to breed enough of them.
    2) I've used a mass uprising in Poland to cut off the entire Germany army from supply and destroyed around half of it.
    3) When manpower gets low, I've used UR as a way to spawn additional combat units without spending my own manpower.

    They are pretty powerful, if you ask me.
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  7. #7
    I brought this up somewhere else but partizans should not move or move REALLY slow. They
    are tied into very local communities and although folks will say they fight like regular units they
    are and should not be considered a really credible ground force but a force designed to disrupt
    supply and force units to confront them. They should be able to attack into the next province
    but never move all over on their own as in reality there would be police and other units at a scale
    not used in this game.

  8. #8
    AHOI-Mod Series Developer Demi Moderator Chromos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plasticpanzers View Post
    I brought this up somewhere else but partizans should not move or move REALLY slow. They
    are tied into very local communities and although folks will say they fight like regular units they
    are and should not be considered a really credible ground force but a force designed to disrupt
    supply and force units to confront them. They should be able to attack into the next province
    but never move all over on their own as in reality there would be police and other units at a scale
    not used in this game.
    So make them easier to build but with much less fighting capabilities and very slow?
    To simulate the local focus of them?

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  9. #9
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    i thought partisan units are more representative of yugoslav units, which were organized into regiments and had chains of command and fought somewhat conventually
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



    "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57

  10. #10
    Covert Mastermind Demi Moderator Secret Master's Avatar
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    Well, the game models local partisans with the supply malus from occupation policies and lack of suppression. UR's that spawn brigades represent real combat units (using MIL techs) and not Red Dawn kinds of partisans, I feel.

    Not that they need to go far to do their job, anyway. If I am triggering UR to do an uprising, I'm not interested in them moving around a bunch. I want them to rise up in place and provide breaks in the supply network and force front line units to retire to the rear to clean them up.
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  11. #11
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    erm, in other words

    red dawn bands would be more akin to the base revolt risk

    cells would be more akin to those in france where they mostly stayed underground but had organized networks

    spawned militia would be like yugoslav units that fought conventionally
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



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  12. #12
    Covert Mastermind Demi Moderator Secret Master's Avatar
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    That's how I see it. URs don't spawn a unit on the map until they have enough warm bodies and weapons to fight like a conventional force. They have to build up to that point, after all, and enemy suppression can discover them and kill them without a fight prior to spawning the so-called conventional force. When they make a unit on the map, they are WAY past the point of insurgent activity we see in historically correct films like Inglorious Basterds (one of Ken Burns better documentaries, I've always felt).
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  13. #13
    AHOI-Mod Series Developer Demi Moderator Chromos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerMan7 View Post
    erm, in other words

    red dawn bands would be more akin to the base revolt risk

    cells would be more akin to those in france where they mostly stayed underground but had organized networks

    spawned militia would be like yugoslav units that fought conventionally
    Yes, like Warsaw uprising later in the war.
    But as it is now, it is maybe to easy to support such a Warsaw uprising like behaviour.
    Thats why I suggested to nerv them more in the dircetion of "normal partisan activity"/revolt risk.
    Afaik even in Yougoslavia the Partisans fought a Guerilla Warfare and did not seek conventional warfare->Battles..

    So the only need fo that feature would be some uprising like in Warsaw later in the war.

    I would like to see an overhaul where the funding of Partisans just raises the Partisan activity wich could be fought with units that have high suppression values.
    Or even abstract it like the convoy system.

    And a special option like Wrasaw uprising would need a certain "partisan acticvity lvl" until real counters would pop up on the map.(Like now but harder to achive.)
    Funding of Commandos would help the effectiveness of such partisans and gain intelligence(map info etc.) and allow of targeting important facilities.
    So you would be able to build/fund cells and where such cell is located the "normal/usual partisan activity" raises and you would have possibilities to do missions on buildings/ressources or even units stationed(attrition lvl of such prov would be higher with high partisan activity) there or move by.

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  14. #14
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    i just did some poland 39 resistancing and i dont think its OP. if the area is garrisoned, the garrison troops will easily crush any revolt or hold it off until regular troops can. a proper garrison force wont allow UR spam anyway. the problem is the ai. also, its not like partisan forces couldnt always rise up and rebel, its just they knew if they did, theyd be crushed and lose all their hard earned work plus a lot of manpower. this is the case in hoi 3
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



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  15. #15
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    Maybe add a rule that you cannot put an UR until 6 months/1 year after the conquest of a province. In many places resistance began slowly because under occupation it is not easy to gather people and material keeping all of it secret.

  16. #16
    unlike the actual Yugoslavian partizans most rebellion forces are local raised and once you start
    to move around you need to draw supplies just like a combat unit which is very hard for a small
    unconvential unit with no major combat capacity. These are to deny rail access and supply for
    frontline units or in very rare cases like Paris raise up and take on regulars. I think that strong
    units would appear near friendly units while weaker ones would appear further 'incountry'

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