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Thread: Romania

  1. #1
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    Romania

    Is it me or does Romania (and many other minors) feel a lot weaker than they should?

    For example, historically, Romania had 690k for Barbarossa and 1.3m in 1944. There's no way I can field that many men. Growth with ministers and 3 year draft is 2.8/month.

    Also, Romania had a mostly modern military and a domestic arms industry but with bad techs and 4.8 leadership, its hard to make much.
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



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  2. #2
    BL-logic
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    Play Black ICE you can field troops of millions. As the Finnish i had nearly 500.000 men. Imagine what i would do as the romanians
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  3. #3
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    also, what exactly is the mobilization bonus? ie, how much cheaper are units than regular reinforcing
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



    "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57

  4. #4
    all minors are severely underpowered, basically all european non-power countries are retarded to a third-world level. I dont know why, either not even a basic historical research was done, or developers thought nobody would care/want to play these countries anyway, or this nerf was needed for some desperate game balance reasons.
    I am not talking about nuances like "Hungary has 3 tank divisions while in RL they had four, whine whine whine", but a total nerfing.. I mean, for example Czechoslovakia in 1936 has ZERO planes and industrial capacity of 13. I didnt check the exact numbers for Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Romania, but it certainly seems to be a similar case.
    There are mods which fix this more than nicely, but anyway it is a bit baffling.

  5. #5
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    what mods precisely?
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



    "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57

  6. #6
    Field Marshal 21oliver's Avatar
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    We have gotten into this in many threads. The Manpower in HOI3 is not accurately representative of history. Its designed so that the Soviets beat the Germans usually, the USA beats Japan mostly and none of the minors rise beyond their own stature. I mean Czechoslovakia has so little manpower they cannot even mobilize. Its done to make the game "playable". I find it pretty distasteful. Yes some of the mods address this, at least somewhat.

  7. #7
    First of all game divisions represent combat staff and not all men and women in the army. As a rule of thumb is from 1/2 to 1/4, may less (see the USA).

    It means that depending on country 1,000,000 could be from 50 to 25 divisions. I do not think it is impossible to have that many by 1944 with Romania.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal 21oliver's Avatar
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    The game clearly states (within the game) that manpower represents solely the available able bodied men fit for duty. The comparisons of the various nations clearly doesnt match historical numbers, and the various events (especially for Germany) where nations get 250, 300, 350,500 extra manpower is clearly off the wall. Players try to justify it by saying that manpower is an abstraction of things, which the game clearly states it isnt...then they come back and start discussing that nations may have the manpower but cant equip them, this also is a non factor...in WWI the Ottoman Empire put units on the Russia Front in bare feet in some cases. If nations have the manpower, and they have the need, they will form armies. NOW...the quality of such units is where you need to penalize them. HOI3 goes in a a-historical manner and chooses to penalize them in formalizing units. Again the biggest most obvious in game case is that the Czechs cant even mobilize. Thats simply unheard of. Not only could they mobilize but the German High Command was afraid of War with the Czechs and assumed massive casualties if they did so.

  9. #9
    General LodovicoAriosto's Avatar

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    Romania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Canada and most other minors are definitely underpowered. The fact that many players find it better to annex minor axis countries rather than ally with them speaks for itself. Getting to war with someone should always bring less benefits than forging an alliance with them.

    I miss usefulness of minor Axis countries and puppets in HoI2, as well as possibility to have a very good game as lets say Czechoslovakia. In HoI3, playing minors feels dull and it is more convenient to simply annex everything which is hardly plausible.

    Fortunately, most mods tend to decrease benefits from occupation so it it is often worth it to spend LP to get minors in your faction rather than destroy their army, their manpower pool and occupy them.

    This also somewhat ruins multiplayer since some players control vast armies and some get bored managing hungary or canada. Again, unlike in HoI2, you cannot delegate military control to all other players in your faction so management sharing is a pain using exp. force option. Why remove tools which enabled members of a faction to share command of everything and cooperate closely, each controlling one aspect or theatre instead of being stuck in a powerless minor? Removal of military control option combined with making minors even weaker than ever before leads to more frustration in multiplayer.
    Last edited by LodovicoAriosto; 15-06-2012 at 22:19.
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  10. #10
    It's my understanding that the game isn't designed to be an accurate reflection of the actual historical situation in terms of resources/manpower/tech as much as to best obtain historical outcomes over ahistorical ones given a hands off game as a historically unimportant nation during the time period. While there was a great deal of effort to both goals limitations in AI capabilities and computer capabilities made choices between these goals necessary at points. The size and capabilities of 'minor' state's militaries are one area that causes tension between these goals.

  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant oss spy's Avatar
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    Romania isn't underpowered if you play it right. I've conquered the Balkans, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Czechslovakia playing as Romania and I was able to help Russia defeat Germany. If you're looking to help out the Axis all you need to do is just leave Czechslovakia on its own and continue with conquering as normal. Doing this, added Ukraine, the Caucus, and Central Asia to my territory. It's not that difficult unless you decide to go historical which, obviously, isn't as fun.
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  12. #12
    HOI3 seems especially hard on minors compared to HOI2. All the majors can easily field twice the army size that they historically had, whereas minors struggle to field 1/2 the men they did IRL. Most people defend this by saying "minors are minors for a reason" without actually explaining why any competent Germany should have 30 tank divisions in 1939 but Finland only gets 10 inf divisions. In HOI2 it was possible to powerlevel certain minors with tech sharing, but the practical system, leadership, and the decisions the majors get in this game make them ridiculously overpowered compared to IRL while the opposite is true for minors.

  13. #13
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    a simple leadership and manpower buff i think will solve a lot of minors concerns

    czechoslovakia shouldnt be a true minor but more in line with poland and spain (imo)

    in fact, in terms of IC, it is. it needs leadership and manpower tho
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



    "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57

  14. #14
    Captain griswolds686's Avatar
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    I agree that minors are too weak.

    However, if you did buff them up, it would be wise to adjust the occupation gains for manpower and leadership. That way Germany cant have 150 ls points in 1939 or something crazy like that.
    HOI3 is flawed, but I think its the best WW2 sim there is. Here's to a HOI!!!!!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerMan7 View Post
    what mods precisely?
    HPP. I am lazy to check ingame now, but iirc, it gives Czechoslovakia 5 air wings and I think about 30-40 IC in 1936.

  16. #16
    BL-logic
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    Check Black ICE it has really reasonable manpower for regional powers.
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  17. #17
    General PanzerMan7's Avatar
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    im looking for a mod that doesnt change basic game mechanics too much
    I wanna be Korean or Japanese.



    "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57

  18. #18
    General LodovicoAriosto's Avatar

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    yeah, because BlackICE makes majors proportionally stronger.
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  19. #19
    BL-logic
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    Quote Originally Posted by LodovicoAriosto View Post
    yeah, because BlackICE makes majors proportionally stronger.
    This might be true but it makes regionals proportionally stronger aswell i once played finland and fielded an army of 500.000 soldiers. So i think that you can field around 1 mil soldiers as Romania. China can field 4 million etc.
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  20. #20
    Second Lieutenant rossBurglar's Avatar
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    Would a more powerful Czechoslovakia, Poland not make the Allies contest Munich more often? I assumed the Czechs were weak so France and the UK wouldn't be too quick to fight in '38

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