EU3 Surrender system

TrueCoppa

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• Jun 14, 2012

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• #1

I have been playing a lot of EU3 recently, and amongst all the great features in it there is one that really stands out for me - The surrender system. The EU3 surrender system is so much more flexible than the current wargoals system we have in HoI. You can really choose what happens after a war ends, it is really friendly for wars with multiple nations on one side. With wargoals, it is usually only one nation that gets the spoils of war after the end of it. With the EU3 surrender system, you can split up countries, choose what alliances they end, make them release nations they have conquered, etc. So I was thinking, this system should really be implemented into HoI somehow. What do you guys think?

Sorry for the poor writing by the way, it is late at night and I just sort of quickly thought of it.

 

Kadanz

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• Jun 14, 2012

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• #2

The AI doesn't choose wargoals, unless it is coded in an event or the lua. I've never seen japan AI claiming the dutch east indies by themselves. I've never seen the italians claim egypte and the middle east, etc.. maybe it's better that way, at least in case of japan. The AI isn't really good in defending island or owned territory on another continent.

 

TrueCoppa

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• Jun 14, 2012

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• #3

Kadanz said:

The AI doesn't choose wargoals, unless it is coded in an event or the lua. I've never seen japan AI claiming the dutch east indies by themselves. I've never seen the italians claim egypte and the middle east, etc.. maybe it's better that way, at least in case of japan. The AI isn't really good in defending island or owned territory on another continent.

Click to expand...

Well they got it right in EU3. The AI always chose the best territories to get, ones that it could defend well. If implemented properly the EU3 system would make HoI games so much more fun and varied.

 

Kadanz

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• Jun 14, 2012

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• #4

TrueCoppa said:

Well they got it right in EU3. The AI always chose the best territories to get, ones that it could defend well. If implemented properly the EU3 system would make HoI games so much more fun and varied.

Click to expand...

I've never played EU3, Although I've seen some let's plays on youtube. But I agree that the hoi 3 wargoals system could use some attention. But we'll have to wait for the dev diaries for the new expansion, maybe they planned to improve some of it. I already have my fingers crossed

 

Jakalak

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• Jun 14, 2012

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• #5

I love the idea, and I would love if it could be implemented in mods like random HoI. I think the problem with it in vanilla though, is that to a certain extent, the war is supposed to follow a semi-historical path, with most of the minor wars not really having an effect next to the clash of ideologies. The surrender system wouldn't really work that well, as most states wouldn't surrender anyway.

 

TrueCoppa

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #6

Jakalak said:

I love the idea, and I would love if it could be implemented in mods like random HoI. I think the problem with it in vanilla though, is that to a certain extent, the war is supposed to follow a semi-historical path, with most of the minor wars not really having an effect next to the clash of ideologies. The surrender system wouldn't really work that well, as most states wouldn't surrender anyway.

Click to expand...

Yes, that did cross my mind, and I have come up with a solution.

Consider this: A combination of the wargoals and EU3 system. You would still have your normal wargoals if you prefer those, or for the scripted wars. However there is an additional wargoal called "Custom" which will trigger the EU3 style surrender box instead of a predefined wargoal.

 

Last edited: Jun 15, 2012

SAS

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #7

The problem here is hoi3 is a battle of complete destruction amongst factions so total conquest is the goal. Not many different wars over the course of the time frame involved. This is very different then ho2 in this respect and I think its an aspect that turned a lot of payers off to hoi3 and why darkest hour is so popular.

That being said I love hoi3 but I with it had more hoi3 aspects when it came to nations and diplomacy.

 

TheBromgrev

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #8

What I'd rather see is tying surrender progress to wargoals, the way wargoals are tied to warscore in EU3 and Vicky2. That way you could get custom peace treaties based on how much of the country you've taken and how harsh the wargoals you chose are.

 

mkupac

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #9

The surrender system in EU3 is so polished that the one in HOI3 seems really bad. I really have no idea if it is such an effort to make the screen and mechanics like the ones in EU3.
It would be really wonderful if all current surrenders were something like the ones in EU3 but just really powered up.
The demand region should just cover huge areas instead of the tiny ones, and it should make it necessary to take a just as huge amount of warscore, and when it exceeds 100% it means the enemy must completely surrender, meaning the one used right now.
Just make the AI really aggressive in adding wargoals and it will have the usual "fight to death", while more modest countries can still wage some minor war.

 

Khorney

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #10

SAS said:

The problem here is hoi3 is a battle of complete destruction amongst factions so total conquest is the goal. Not many different wars over the course of the time frame involved. This is very different then ho2 in this respect and I think its an aspect that turned a lot of payers off to hoi3 and why darkest hour is so popular.

That being said I love hoi3 but I with it had more hoi3 aspects when it came to nations and diplomacy.

Click to expand...

well, not really - germany installed a puppet government in france, and only wanted chunks of the USSR, there's no way germany could conquer the whole USSR without breaking it up. Japan only wanted the asian colonies, not to take over the whole USA or whatever. as Japan in vic2, the war against the US made much more sense - they intervened on china's behalf in it and we battled it out for years and eventually called it a day with some territory adjustments. WW2 was no different. so i would totally be down for more flexible resolutions

 

Hakello

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #11

Agreed, I really don't care what they do, as long as they fix the mess it is now.

 

SAS

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #12

I would like to see the governments in exile go away if the faction leader is destroyed by their own surrender, conquest, or peace.

 

Sakura_F

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• Jun 15, 2012

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• #13

The HOI3 system for about everything is broken. The post-war scenario ends up being a mess, with Britain owning this chunk of France, Soviets owning this blob cut off, etc. and there is no way to create the DDR/FRG, and actually divide the nation, or fix things. You know?

 

TrueCoppa

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• Jun 16, 2012

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• #14

Sakura_F said:

The HOI3 system for about everything is broken. The post-war scenario ends up being a mess, with Britain owning this chunk of France, Soviets owning this blob cut off, etc. and there is no way to create the DDR/FRG, and actually divide the nation, or fix things. You know?

Click to expand...

Yes, I have to agree with a lot of what you say there. I think if we use the EU3 surrender system, it could definitely make the game more fun for people, and more varied. People won't just drag themselves through the game, knowing how it will always end up as the same mess time and time again.

The only problem I see with the EU3 surrender system is for the actual World War itself - it may end a lot earlier. This is fixed if you do not allow AI nations to select the "custom" wargoal however (which triggers the EU3 box instead of just a standard scripted wargoal).

 

unmerged(431288)

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• Jun 16, 2012

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• #15

I hope PI see's this....

 

uberjedi

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• Jun 16, 2012

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• #16

Paradox seems to have put a lot of energy in getting some things right in EU3,CK2 or V2.
They should focus more on reusing it in HOI3 instead of inventing the wheel again and again.

 

1alexey

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• Jun 16, 2012

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• #17

Since Hoi3 is a game about waging the world war, and after the peace you basically won, the surrender and post-war stuff has the prority of less thanzero which is totally fine for me.

 

GAGA Extrem

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• Jun 17, 2012

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• #18

Eu3 has a fantastic peace negotiation system, probably the most detailed and most flexible of all Pdox games.
However, I don't think it would fit into the HoI3 timeline and playstile. HoI3 is more a "winner takes all" kind of game with a very short timeframe.

 

Gimpstar

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• Jun 17, 2012

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• #19

The EU3 peace negotiation system would be a hell of a waste in HOI3. Why having a flexible system in a mostly linear game? There is only 1 big war, the one who wins this war wins the game.

And Allied wargoal was the complete surrender of Germany, negotiations with Germany were never intended.