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Thread: Remove join Holy Wars please

  1. #1
    Captain OrangeOranges's Avatar
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    Remove join Holy Wars please

    For the love of God, no wonder the Catholics get crushed in Spain.

    I started as the King of Galicia but both of my brother died (woops) so I inherited both Kingdoms to form the Kingdom of Leon-Galicia-Castille.

    Everyone would know the amount of land these 3 kingdoms hold. Yet I still couldnt conquer a small Muslim duchy even after hiring 2 mercanry compainies.

    Please tell me what Im doing wrong.

    Orange
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  2. #2
    If you can't do it with all of that, then I really don't know what to say, perhaps you are attacking them at the wrong time? Barcellona likes to attack people in holy wars, wait till they do it, then wait till the muslims are dog piling them and then declare war on the same target for a different part of the territory. They can all only join one of the wars.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sopot View Post
    If you can't do it with all of that, then I really don't know what to say, perhaps you are attacking them at the wrong time? Barcellona likes to attack people in holy wars, wait till they do it, then wait till the muslims are dog piling them and then declare war on the same target for a different part of the territory. They can all only join one of the wars.
    Word of caution with that, sometimes you end up fighting people you aren't actually at war with, which happens when you join forces with those you aren't formally allied with.

    For example, if you and Barcelona each have an army in the same Muslim county, the incoming Muslim force will have to battle both of you. You and Barcelona will be put in the same one big army (e.g. rulers from both countries being seen as leading flanks). Then, when those other Muslims who have joined the war against Barcelona but not the war against you, will actually still join with the original Muslim defenders even against you. It will be basically be a 2v2 then, regardless that you and the second Muslim country aren't actually at war with each other and you aren't even allied to Barcelona in any formal sense.
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  4. #4
    Also make sure you press de jure kingdom claims first if you have them, while holy wars are nice they don't pay off unless you sneak attack as above or get yourself good allies (HRE/France).
    De jure claims mean only allies can join in the defence so check the lists before you attack to see who will help them.

  5. #5
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    Why remove holy wars? That would simply inhibit your ability to get allies. Wait until one of the western states starts a war for say... Barcellona. Then as Galicia take control of Portugals areas. Thats how you win wars, with patience.
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  6. #6
    Wait until the two biggest Muslim powers in the region are busy with something else.

    Try to have your own allies in the area.

    Declare war on every state in the area that you suspect will join the war against you. You're going to have to fight them anyway, may as well get some territory out of it. Additionally, the AI doesn't seem to work together with people it's not actually allied with. If you declare on one duchy and it brings the others in, you'll end up dealing with their unstoppable combined doomstack. Declare five separate wars, and the AI will fight them as five separate wars, making them much easier to pick apart.

  7. #7
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    If you can't do anything with all of that, I think you might have to come to the realization that you might not be very good at this game...
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  8. #8
    Field Marshal grommile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tirin View Post
    Wait until the two biggest Muslim powers in the region are busy with something else.
    This. If you're having trouble, remember that France and/or the Empire will go after Sardinia sooner rather than later; at that point, carpe diem.

    Also: Truces with Muslims should be treated as meaningless. Sure, you lose some prestige by breaking them - but you'll get it back when you win the war.
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  9. #9
    List Curator neondt's Avatar
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    As a general rule of thumb, don't use holy wars when you don't stand a chance of beating all of your target's same-religion neighbours at once. In Iberia you can get a lot of land just by presing de jure kingdom claims (it's pretty easy to become king of Castille, Leon, and Galicia within the first century). If you're not that powerful yet, it might be best to only use de jure and fabricated claim wars until you're strong enough to win holy wars. It's slower but it's much easier.

  10. #10
    Before characters joined holy wars to defend their neighbours from infidels, the Muslims were getting wiped out with minimal effort. I like the current approach, to be quite honest.

  11. #11
    I think it is a neat feature, but one which must be treated with care. It has also saved my own ass a couple of times when the muslims have declared war on me while I was embroiled in civil war and managed to hold out just long enough for England and France to both offer to join.

    Also the fact that France decided to join in on the cake that is the Iberian peninsula alongside a couple of forays by England probably helped, but now that there is only a single muslim stronghold left and the lands are divided between me (The kingdoms of Aragon, Castille and Leon), France and the Duchy of Aragon (former vassal of the Kingdom of Leon) it's become a bit of a hassle.

  12. #12
    Press whatever de jure claims you have first. Then only use holy wars when the muslims are in some form of crisis.
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  13. #13
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    In almost every defensive holy war there is at least two other leaders helping the defender even if they are christians. In my game navarra and most of aragon is still in christian hands. Muslims are not conquering everything fast it takes them quite lont time to do. Not to mention that France is running over the whole northern africa.

  14. #14
    Captain OrangeOranges's Avatar
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    Thank you. I didnt even think of using de jure claims, I thought they had the same effect of every Muslim nations doggypiling on me so I didnt use them because I though

    Well, if im going to have all of Muslim Iberia fighting me, might aswell do it for a entire duchy instead of 1 county.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeOranges View Post
    Thank you. I didnt even think of using de jure claims, I thought they had the same effect of every Muslim nations doggypiling on me so I didnt use them because I though

    Well, if im going to have all of Muslim Iberia fighting me, might aswell do it for a entire duchy instead of 1 county.

    Glad I could help, don't forget to have your chancellor fabricating and try to breed some good diplo characters. Even resort to getting your chancellor to marry a high diplo woman just so in the future you have a line of high diplo courtiers at your disposal. As a general rule of thumb I make sure all my council is married and producing strong offspring.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axelius View Post
    I think it is a neat feature, but one which must be treated with care. It has also saved my own ass a couple of times when the muslims have declared war on me while I was embroiled in civil war and managed to hold out just long enough for England and France to both offer to join.

    Also the fact that France decided to join in on the cake that is the Iberian peninsula alongside a couple of forays by England probably helped, but now that there is only a single muslim stronghold left and the lands are divided between me (The kingdoms of Aragon, Castille and Leon), France and the Duchy of Aragon (former vassal of the Kingdom of Leon) it's become a bit of a hassle.
    Exactly, it works both ways. Just be happy that you have friends nearby. I'm not so lucky as I'm Catholic surrounded by Muslims in Jerusalem.

  17. #17
    To add to the discussion, marry into a strong family. For example, a Capetian princess is available almost right from the start of the 1066 scenario. And call your allies for help

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothar Warschau View Post
    To add to the discussion, marry into a strong family. For example, a Capetian princess is available almost right from the start of the 1066 scenario. And call your allies for help
    There is also a Salian princess available at start, and they are sure to back you against muslims.
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  19. #19
    The downside of de jure claims is that a bunch of your vassals will be Anadalucian culture for a while, which can be annoying. Also, you can't hand out as many new territories to your court/vassals.

    But yeah, it's the only way to avoid a dogpile early on, other than waiting... waiting... waiting... for the next Mauritanian internal revolt.

  20. #20
    that problem is easily fixed by having Medium CA (which is arguebly the best anyhows) ... free revoking of infidels ... declare De Jure war on them, followed by revoking them right away afterwards (they haven't had time to rebuild their army)

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