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Thread: Italy 1836 vs 1861

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    Italy 1836 vs 1861

    I have noticed that the 1861 scenario starts out with Italy almost intact except for some provinces owned by Austria and a couple of holdouts from the Papal States. My question is can you start in 1836 and do this? If so how?

    I have tried, but either Austria or France is to tough and then there is the BB that gets to high from taking so much territory. Can you accomplish it and if so how do you do it?

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    Field Marshal calvinhobbeslik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrierguy View Post
    I have noticed that the 1861 scenario starts out with Italy almost intact except for some provinces owned by Austria and a couple of holdouts from the Papal States. My question is can you start in 1836 and do this? If so how?

    I have tried, but either Austria or France is to tough and then there is the BB that gets to high from taking so much territory. Can you accomplish it and if so how do you do it?
    You don't have to conquer all the states...just become a GP and sphere them.

  3. #3
    Captain htilden42's Avatar
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    Italy also gets a special event, that if any Italian-cultured state gets taken over by Garibaldi's Red Shirts, you (if you're the highest-ranked Italian state) have an opportunity to unify Italy without having to deal with spheres. There's still a chance that some countries won't join you, and you'll still have to go to war with Austria for Venetia-Lombardy.

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    First Lieutenant EGaffney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htilden42 View Post
    Italy also gets a special event, that if any Italian-cultured state gets taken over by Garibaldi's Red Shirts, you (if you're the highest-ranked Italian state) have an opportunity to unify Italy without having to deal with spheres. There's still a chance that some countries won't join you, and you'll still have to go to war with Austria for Venetia-Lombardy.
    Once you unify most of Italy from the Expedition of the Thousand event, you can build a strong enough army to fight Austria in an irredentist war. Ally with North Germany and Russia for help.

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    First Lieutenant Breyer's Avatar
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    The answer to your first question is no. There is a way to form italy with those boundaries, and there is a way to have the papal states not part of it, but there is no way to make it just rome that's not part of it.

  6. #6
    I see Italy form without Rome in pdm all the time. No idea how it happens though...

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    Captain paulthebug's Avatar
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    A related question on Italy.
    I was playing as SP, got an option to give France Nice + the 2 small provinces up there in exchange for 10 infamy reduction plus some prestige. Do you think it is worth it?

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    Lt. General Jorlaan's Avatar
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    NO! Cavours Diplomacy, which is the decision I belive you are referring to, is useless IMO. You lose valuable Italian pops for what, some prestige and a little infamy drop? Worthless. The pops are the most important.

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    Captain paulthebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorlaan View Post
    NO! Cavours Diplomacy, which is the decision I belive you are referring to, is useless IMO. You lose valuable Italian pops for what, some prestige and a little infamy drop? Worthless. The pops are the most important.
    Hi Jorlaan,
    So you think so? But I can also argue that Nice is small, and the two province above is mostly populated by French anyway. Anyway, just playing devil's advocate to solicit more opinion.

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    First Lieutenant EGaffney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorlaan View Post
    NO! Cavours Diplomacy, which is the decision I belive you are referring to, is useless IMO. You lose valuable Italian pops for what, some prestige and a little infamy drop? Worthless. The pops are the most important.
    France is not a useful ally, as it is likely to truce with Austria rather than maintain warfare. Ideally, your infamy should already be quite low. Cavour's Diplomacy makes sense only if you have engaged in seriously aggressive conquest over Italy. No war and the Expedition of the Thousand is the right way to go.

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    Lt. General Jorlaan's Avatar
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    Its true that there aren't many Italians in those areas, but there are some. And when it comes down to it, land is land is land. You want more of it for the resources. That area has coal if I'm not mistaken, rather useful for the whole game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGaffney View Post
    France is not a useful ally, as it is likely to truce with Austria rather than maintain warfare. Ideally, your infamy should already be quite low. Cavour's Diplomacy makes sense only if you have engaged in seriously aggressive conquest over Italy. No war and the Expedition of the Thousand is the right way to go.
    *cough*absolutelyhistorical*cough*

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  13. #13
    If France spheres you you can probably just get them to actually help in the war with a normal alliance. On the other hand, Austria isn't as hard to beat as one might think. Your borders aren't that wide, so you can defend them well, if you get some colonial troops to help out. In PDM, you can't get colonial regulars, but Austria can't get a lot of regulars either, so it's the same sort of balance.
    Last edited by moldeh; 13-06-2012 at 19:48.

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    Captain FMekajiki's Avatar
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    I am currently playing a PDM Sardinia->Italy game and I avoided war for a long time. I invaded Two Sicilies to get their land and sphere them when I was teetering as a GP in the 1850's but I had to wait until I got an opportunity to fight the Austrian monster on equal footing. This happened when the Crimean War broke out in 1861 and Austria supported Russia against the Ottomans, Britain, and France. I joined the war by declaring war to take Lombardy and Venetia, this became even easier when the NGF joined in and took Bohemia.

    After that, I formed Italy(without Rome, which was still protected by the French), and the NGF enacted the Dreikaiserbund decision and formed a strong alliance with AH and Russia and 2 years later attacked France for Alsace-Lorraine. I waited and watched(NGF had lost to France earlier in the game when trying this), but the help of the Russians and Austrians in the war put them over the edge and once France appeared to be losing, I launched a war to claim Rome from the Pope and Corsica from France, which was easy considering most of the war was just competing with NGF to reach a city and occupy it first. Now I'm colonizing Somalia/Kenya/Ethiopia.

    Moral of the story: Unifying Italy is a very fun game because it relies pretty hugely on paying attention to the balance of power in Europe and striking the Pope/France and the minors/Austria at the right time. It's one of the very few powers that you have to really pay attention and care about your relationships with other powers because when you play as France/Britain/USA/Austria/Prussia/Russia/Ottomans/Spain/Japan you can easily just curbstomp everyone around you, where as with Italy, in the beginning you can't(though post-unification you can :P)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGaffney View Post
    France is not a useful ally, as it is likely to truce with Austria rather than maintain warfare. Ideally, your infamy should already be quite low. Cavour's Diplomacy makes sense only if you have engaged in seriously aggressive conquest over Italy. No war and the Expedition of the Thousand is the right way to go.
    Hi EGaffney,
    You are spot on that the French is not a reliable ally, but neither is anybody else.
    In my SP game, I got quite lucky on infamy roll, and thus able to eat half of Switzerland, Tunisia, Zulu & Sikn by around 1850s or so. Became a GP. And the bloody French broke off the alliance with me just when I am ready to declare on Austria! I was relying on them!

    Thank God I then managed to ally with NGF, and they tied up the bulk of Austria's army, (I only got something like 30 brigades). But NGF was also incrediblely stupid to demand for annexation of Luca. Of all the juicy provinces they can ask from Austria, why the h**k do they want a stupid Luca is really beyond me.

    Eventually Red Shirt overun Papal State and I manage to form Italy, without Luca, really an eye sore.

    I broke off my alliance with NGF and trying to ally with France again to gain back Luca, even ceding them Nice and the two upper provinces, but they simply don't wanna ally with a GP Italy anymore.

    This really make playing SP -> Italy quite interesting.

  16. #16
    First Lieutenant EGaffney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulthebug View Post
    Hi EGaffney,
    You are spot on that the French is not a reliable ally, but neither is anybody else.
    In my SP game, I got quite lucky on infamy roll, and thus able to eat half of Switzerland, Tunisia, Zulu & Sikn by around 1850s or so. Became a GP. And the bloody French broke off the alliance with me just when I am ready to declare on Austria! I was relying on them!

    Thank God I then managed to ally with NGF, and they tied up the bulk of Austria's army, (I only got something like 30 brigades). But NGF was also incrediblely stupid to demand for annexation of Luca. Of all the juicy provinces they can ask from Austria, why the h**k do they want a stupid Luca is really beyond me.

    Eventually Red Shirt overun Papal State and I manage to form Italy, without Luca, really an eye sore.

    I broke off my alliance with NGF and trying to ally with France again to gain back Luca, even ceding them Nice and the two upper provinces, but they simply don't wanna ally with a GP Italy anymore.

    This really make playing SP -> Italy quite interesting.
    Brilliant, North Germany was too effective an ally in this case! At least you can be assured that Austria's neigbours will actually engage in conquest, unlike the flaky French.

    I think Russian diplomacy is under-recommended for the Italy game. Russia can harass Austria, but also Germany and the Ottomans, if you are feeling expansionist. Of course, like any ally, they are not guaranteed to help. But they tempt enemy men away from your front line, they can give the Ottomans at least a good kicking, and they will usually go for conquest of Poland rather than the provinces you want. If you are planning to dismantle the Austro-Hungarian Empire, this should help with a couple of wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by htilden42 View Post
    Italy also gets a special event, that if any Italian-cultured state gets taken over by Garibaldi's Red Shirts, you (if you're the highest-ranked Italian state) have an opportunity to unify Italy without having to deal with spheres. There's still a chance that some countries won't join you, and you'll still have to go to war with Austria for Venetia-Lombardy.
    And then using Italian irredentist decision, you gain cores on many regions, like Venetia, Istiria, and Dalmatia
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    Quote Originally Posted by htilden42 View Post
    Italy also gets a special event, that if any Italian-cultured state gets taken over by Garibaldi's Red Shirts, you (if you're the highest-ranked Italian state) have an opportunity to unify Italy without having to deal with spheres. There's still a chance that some countries won't join you, and you'll still have to go to war with Austria for Venetia-Lombardy.
    Is there any way to increase the probability that the redshirts will show up/ succeed? Played a few times in a row as S-P and it hasnt happened. Ironnically, i played as tuscany and it did, but i was surronded by a greater italy...grrr

  19. #19
    KING OF PIE ilikepie's Avatar
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    I was playing as Sard-Piedmont and I got the redshirt event when they took over lucca lol, in 1841! So then every italian country bowed down to me. Give away those provinces to France as your borders will look hideous otherwise. You'll jutt out too far on the left !

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ilikepie View Post
    I was playing as Sard-Piedmont and I got the redshirt event when they took over lucca lol, in 1841! So then every italian country bowed down to me. Give away those provinces to France as your borders will look hideous otherwise. You'll jutt out too far on the left !
    Well, just take French Provence... gets you Corsica too.

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