Good starting Nation for super nub

[gman551]

Hey all, taking a break from ck2 to try and learn this game which I've never had much time to do.

I'm looking for a good country to learn the ropes as, probably a more middle of the road one since starting as a Great Power might be kind of tough.

I could never figure out Vicky 1 at all, but im hoping Vicky2 is a bit easier to learn and master.

Over in the ck2 forum Meneth did a guide, I was wondering if anyone did something like that for Vicky2?

I had a look at the wiki, are there any other guides that would help with the learning curve?

I've got a house divided as well and updated to the latest version.

[DrLulz]

Belgium is the tutorial nation. Just beat up Holland A.S.A.P and take a region, then you'll be relatively safe for the foreseeable future, and you have a headstart in industrialisation.

I know you said "No great power", but in my experience USA is a great learning nation, because you're isolated you've got plenty of time to goof around, and there's some warfare, but nothing you can't handle.

[gman551]

i did in vicky1 play as the U.S. but I just could never get the hang of how to create an American empire and snap up all the territories that everyone else was doing.

Belgium was my first choice actually.

What I really would like to know is how to get industrialization started and how the new colonization system works. I did read the manual for vanilla and a house divided but I'm not sure I still understand it.

So most importantly I would really like to know how I can build an economy, and how pops influence that. Im sure someone will say go to the wiki....been there done that

Honestly out of all the Paradox games i've played, Hoi2, EU3, CK, CK2, the vicky series I just could never figure put mostly because of the economy all I did in 1 was raise tariffs like crazy

[DrLulz]

Industrialization is fairly complex, and I'm not particularly good at it. But it's about much about "pop-economy", the larger population, the better off you are, so go conquering some popolous uncivilized nations (South East Asia is where you want to go), also you might want to try to pass the health-care reforms as early as possible. Other than that, you need to turn your population into craftsmen, this is best done by taxing the lower classes harshly, because if they go broke they will demote to craftsmen. At the same time keep upper-class tax at a minimum, so capitalists will invest.

Tech-wise, you need industrialization techs to make RGO more efficient, so people change jobs from Labourer/farmer to craftsmen, as Belgium you produce a lot of coal, so the clean coal tech might me good to get early. You also need commerce-techs because these make your factories more effective, so they can hold their own without subsidies.

Colonialization:
Great Powers and secondary powers can colonize, that is the top 16 ranked. You need to have the appropriate life-rating, most empty provinces have the worst life-rating they can have, so you need all the techs: Nationalism and Imperialsm (culture), Machine Guns (Army) and Propylaxis against malaria (invention from Medicine (Industry). When you have the appropriate techs you need naval range to empty territory, that means: Either you should ahve a land-border, or you should have a nearby naval base of at least lvl. 2. For Belgium the easiest way is to beat up Sokoto, Brunei or Egypt, so you border some empty land. Then you use National Focus to colonize, it goes faster if you put troops in the region.

[omnipotentatus]

Actually the way i have understood the economics in vicky 2, is that it is in most cases counter-productive to tax the lower class harshly instead you should tax the middle class harshly and the taxes for the upper class should be at a minimum if you have capitalists. All of your pops are consumers and will buy the goods that your factories produce. Also you should increase your literacy since it helps with research, to do this you need 2% clergy in each state. Because you need a literate population to make people promote to clerks and capitalists, who like the craftsmen are an important part of industrialisation.
To become a proper indutrial powerhouse you need a large population, which the USA gets over time, in the start it's a meagre 4 or so million pops spread thin in many provinces and states.
And as DrLulz said you need industrial and commerce techs to increase the efficiency of your factories and RGO's.

[Phalanxia]

Tech-wise, you need industrialization techs to make RGO more efficient, so people change jobs from Labourer/farmer to craftsmen, as Belgium you produce a lot of coal, so the clean coal tech might me good to get early. You also need commerce-techs because these make your factories more effective, so they can hold their own without subsidies.

This is key. Making your RGOs so efficient that they meet demand, and have to fire workers, forces your POPs out of the fields and mines and into your factories. Accordingly, you'll want to get 100% admin efficiency in every state (with bureaucrats), then get 2% clergy in every state in order to maximise research.

Don't use tariffs. Not ever, as they raise the cost of stuff you import (i.e. mos things) without protecting your own industries.

It's OK to tax the working classes harshly at the beginning, as your tax efficiency is low, and they have loadsa cash. By the late game, you'll want those taxes to be very low, as they will be driving demand for your products (as there are so many of them), and your rich POPs should be stuffing their unspent millions in your national bank. I would be very cautious about taxing the middle classes, both because artisans are the unsung heroes of the game, but also because Clerks (who you'll want a ratio of 2:3 with craftsmen in the factories to achieve maximum efficiency) are a pain to get.

Remember to continuously politically liberalise, to stop your folks from buggering off to the United States.

(South East Asia is where you want to go),

East Africa is also good.

If you still have questions, I'll answer more tomorrow. It's just tough giving a big guide to the economy, so have a look through the economy thread and especially this.

[gman551]

phalanxia, omnipotentatus

i very much appreciate your help, this is why i love paradox games its the community.

I will have some questions of that im sure, and if you guys can help me figure this game out it is very much appreciated!

Somehow I figured out pretty much all the other paradox games but im afraid this one due to the extraordinarily complex economy has always stumped me.

The idea of getting involved in for me what is the most interesting time in the history of imperialism, gunboat diplomacy conquering africa the entire known world divided into spheres of influence. No to mention the civil war, which I hear got a good treatment in the expansion.

going a little off topic if anyone ever played ageod's american civil war........that game sucks

anyways ill be posting some questions after I begin my first vicky2 game in a few mins

[-ideaman-]

US or Belgium. You get to experience a little bit of everything and if you mess up you can still recover.

[calvinhobbeslik]

US or Belgium. You get to experience a little bit of everything and if you mess up you can still recover.

If you mess up as Belgium, you can get annexed by the Dutch.

[omnipotentatus]

US or Belgium. You get to experience a little bit of everything and if you mess up you can still recover.

Indeed USA or Belgium is great starter nations, also if you want a bigger challenge France is also a great "nub" friendly nation since it is already powerful at game start. And unlike the UK you do not have a huge empire divided by the seas, or a iliterate population like Austria and Russia or having to unite cultural group. You start with a large literate population (literacy increases daily research points and so does pluralism which is a good side-effect of a population with high consciousness) but i think in Vanilla V2 and AHD France gets a huge demographic nerf by -0.03% pop growth or something like that, which is very damaging.
A starter uncivilised nation is without doubt Japan, high literacy = fast reforms, and a ton of reforms at start.

[Phalanxia]

Correction: by "[In the late game], your rich POPs should be stuffing their unspent millions in your national bank" I mean that money will be sitting in your bank not doing anything if you don't change your taxes. By the late game, you will want to tax your rich POPs so that you get most of your revenue from them, allowing you to subsidise low/zero taxes for the other two classes. Regardless, you definitely learn best how to play this game by doing, so give it a good go!

[synthshadow]

My two penneth starter nations if you are still looking are Brazil and Prussia - Brazil so that you get the hang of the game without fear you'll be annexed by anyone. Quite hard to become GP with them at the start but once you are more au fait it's more than doable.

Prussia as they are already a GP and you can practice sphering nations. I guess France may be slightly better but I've only had two damn good games with Brazil and Prussia/NGF/Germany.

[Phalanxia]

Brazil is a terrific game, and I highly recommend it. There's something exceptionally cool about maintaining Latin America's last Empire and leading it to Great Power status.

[omnipotentatus]

My two penneth starter nations if you are still looking are Brazil and Prussia - Brazil so that you get the hang of the game without fear you'll be annexed by anyone. Quite hard to become GP with them at the start but once you are more au fait it's more than doable.

Prussia as they are already a GP and you can practice sphering nations. I guess France may be slightly better but I've only had two damn good games with Brazil and Prussia/NGF/Germany.

Prussia's not bad, but it is a bit overwhelming trying to unite Germany as a starter, as you will have to fight other GP's to get the territory and perhaps spherelings needed to pull it off.
I agree that Brazil can be a good starting place to try out the weaker south and central american nations.

Edit: As Brazil you do not have to fear your neighbours, which is a great reason to play them...

[synthshadow]

Oh no I agree it is rather overwhelming - that was more my own personal goal I guess.

With that in mind I would probably replace Prussia with France as they are big, do not have ambitions on the continent like Prussia does (that I know of) and still have the ability to play around with sphering.

Plus France seems to colonise like Road Runner on Acid as soon as they are able to - never tried them myself yet but worth remembering just in case when your confidence has built up

[gman551]

welp, I just finished my first game, got killed by Netherlands as Belgium even though the UK was my ally and landed no troops to help me.....I have no idea how to encourage industrialization, also i'd like to know why I got killed once I sent troops in to occupy some of their land....

Also do I build factories to maximize my resources? I guess since my game was so short I didnt learn much, I suppose I will try the u.s like I did in vicky1 so I wont get murdered

[El Greco]

My first game with Vic2 was Belgium and I messed it up. My second was with Sweden and I had a blast! High Literacy, plenty of timber to setup a wood-based industry.

[omnipotentatus]

welp, I just finished my first game, got killed by Netherlands as Belgium even though the UK was my ally and landed no troops to help me.....I have no idea how to encourage industrialization, also i'd like to know why I got killed once I sent troops in to occupy some of their land....

Also do I build factories to maximize my resources? I guess since my game was so short I didnt learn much, I suppose I will try the u.s like I did in vicky1 so I wont get murdered

You should always play defensive in a war unless you are absolutely certain that you can annihilate your enemy with ease.

[gman551]

i've got another question

Why do all my factories go bankrupt?!

Every time I turn around one of them is closed and even if I reopen it it just closes again!

what the heck man like all my factories suck....

Specifically as Belgium my starting Ammunitions, Armaments, and canned food factories just go belly up every five seconds

What am I doing wrong or not doing right?

[gman551]

yet another in an ongoing series of questions:

I did figure out about the subsidize factories thingie but my capitalists haven'e built anything for several years and I set the national focus on basic industry....but they won't build anything!