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  1. #21
    When you change a kingdom's law, everyone who has counties in the de jure lands of that kingdom gets to vote on it, whether or not they are your vassals.

    As for what to do, focus on marrying your heir/children to either create beneficial alliances or bring good-stat characters into your dynasty, or ideally to bring new lands into your control. For example, if you can marry your heir to the heir of a certain nearby duchy, do it. Then you may have to assassinate other potential heirs to make sure the land will pass into your realm. Fabricate claims on neighboring counties to expand your realm. Declare war on parts of de jure Scotland that you don't control using the de jure claim CB. Make sure your vassals like you and give them gifts/educate your children/press their claims/use the intrigue decisions to make them like you more.

    It's definitely very enigmatic when you start playing, for me it mostly trial by fire and reading these forums/ Meneth's wikia guide that helped me get a better grasp. Of course, sometimes things still happen that I don't understand but I can usually retrace what went wrong.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroodingMonarch View Post
    Don't think I've ever, in a lifetime of gaming, ever played a game that is so incomprehensible to me. So I tried to increase my Crown Authority as suggested, but I only got six votes in my favour out of fifty odd. When I looked at who had voted against me, there were people there from Norway and Ireland... how do they have a say in it? I don't know what on Earth to do at all. I've read the wiki, read all the tip screens, and although the answers provided here have helped in my understanding of certain terms and concepts, I've no idea how to actually play the game. I mean what I should literally be doing.
    (1) Every character who owns at least a county within your de-jure territory is allowed to vote when crown laws are changed (because they are affected by them).


    (2) There is no real goal for CK2. It is more or less a role playing game / grand strategy crossover. You play as a dynasty from 1066 to 1453 and see what will happen.
    So what can you do during that timeframe?

    You can try to increase your dynasty prestige by maximizing your demesne and the demesne of your kinsmen.
    You can try to conquer land and increase the number of titles you own.
    You can try to repel the muslims from Iberia.
    You can try to convert to a heresy and undermine the authority of the catholic church.
    You can try to defeat the mongol invasion.
    You can try to work yourself up from a count to a mighty emperor.
    You can try to dismember the HRE or Byzantium.


    (3) Try starting as an irish count or duke. This is a good way to get a grasp on how to manage your demesne, how to expand, how to create and manage titles.

  3. #23
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    You can just try, go with the flow, even if you mess up you realm. Scotland it's not the easiest start for a novice of the game, so don't worry too much about consequences.
    There is an opinion modifier that gives a bonus or a malus depending on how long you have reigned (don't remember exactly the opinion bonus or malus). In the beginning wait, accumulate money, became a loved king, and then increase crown authority and strike!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroodingMonarch View Post
    Don't think I've ever, in a lifetime of gaming, ever played a game that is so incomprehensible to me. So I tried to increase my Crown Authority as suggested, but I only got six votes in my favour out of fifty odd. When I looked at who had voted against me, there were people there from Norway and Ireland... how do they have a say in it? I don't know what on Earth to do at all. I've read the wiki, read all the tip screens, and although the answers provided here have helped in my understanding of certain terms and concepts, I've no idea how to actually play the game. I mean what I should literally be doing.
    Go to youtube and watch a lets play crusader kings 2 video. You will see someone else playing and it should help.
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  5. #25
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    If you start as the King of Scotland in 1066 there's a lot you can do. I'd say it's a pretty good training ground. Don't be afraid to just start over if it feels as though you've messed up irrepairably - at least for me, it took a few "dud" games to really get the hang of things.

    In my recent Scotland game, the first thing I did was declare war on Norway for Caithness - this may not always be the best idea, but remember that at the start of the game in 1066, Norway is embroiled in a three-pronged war with England and Normandie. If you get lucky, you can nab Caithness without ever fighting a battle, because they're too busy fighting the English and the Normans. I'm pretty sure all the conditions for declaring war on Norway over Caithness ARE in fact fulfilled when you start - just make sure you don't have any raised levies. Click on Caithness, then click on the ruler portrait, then click on the gold-framed portrait above his. That takes you to the Norwegian King's diplomacy screen. There should be a "Declare War" button at the top of the lower left menu, and your vassal's claim on the county should be selectable, but there should also be a selectable Casus Belli that says "De Jure Claim on Caithness" with no portrait next to it. That's the one you should pick, as that will give you, personally, control over Caithness. You can do that because Caithness is a "de Jure" part of Scotland, which is a Kingdom you hold. There's a neat little button on the main screen, in the lower right, that says "Show de Jure Kingdoms", which you can use to determine which Kingdoms give you CBs on what areas.

    For easier fights, however, you can declare war both on the Isle of Man (which is independent) and the various counties belonging to your independent neighbour, the Duchy of the Isles. These are also de Jure parts of Scotland, so you will have a magical, always-there CB - but because they're independent, they're easy pickings.

    You should send your chancellor to Fabricate Claims in Ireland - it's a mess of independent counties and duchies, and England will ignore it for as long as they're busy with Norway and Normandie. Use the "view de Jure Duchies" button to check which duchies consist only of two counties, and go for these as soon as possible. Once you have control of one county within one of these small Duchies, you can create or usurp the Duke title (a prompt will appear on the top of the screen), which will give you a "free" Casus Belli on the other county within that Duchy. By fabricating Claims on the right counties you can get a rolling, domino-like effect. Eventually you can crown yourself the King of Ireland too. When you're done there, go for Wales.
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  6. #26
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    You might want to watch some Let's Plays on YouTube, I like Paradoxianlp's and State Machine had a real good tutorial on how to handle being France at the earliest start (which of course I can't find).

    My advice would be to play on the easiest mode, plan to lose anyway, and just mash all the buttons to see what they do. Declare war on folks for whatever reason presents itself. Pick a powerful, secure leader, maybe one of the later Kings of England or France, and stomp stuff. Heck, when I get frustrated with games (or life), I just fire up the game as France. Any game pre-1800 really. Play as France, kick the world's a**, then go to progressively harder start points.

    Normally we say do exactly what you're doing, but that's for folks who've been anticipating this particular game, I think. But one way to learn is to play a more powerful country and do anything you like.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zealuu View Post
    If you start as the King of Scotland in 1066 there's a lot you can do. I'd say it's a pretty good training ground. Don't be afraid to just start over if it feels as though you've messed up irrepairably - at least for me, it took a few "dud" games to really get the hang of things.

    In my recent Scotland game, the first thing I did was declare war on Norway for Caithness - this may not always be the best idea, but remember that at the start of the game in 1066, Norway is embroiled in a three-pronged war with England and Normandie. If you get lucky, you can nab Caithness without ever fighting a battle, because they're too busy fighting the English and the Normans. I'm pretty sure all the conditions for declaring war on Norway over Caithness ARE in fact fulfilled when you start - just make sure you don't have any raised levies. Click on Caithness, then click on the ruler portrait, then click on the gold-framed portrait above his. That takes you to the Norwegian King's diplomacy screen. There should be a "Declare War" button at the top of the lower left menu, and your vassal's claim on the county should be selectable, but there should also be a selectable Casus Belli that says "De Jure Claim on Caithness" with no portrait next to it. That's the one you should pick, as that will give you, personally, control over Caithness. You can do that because Caithness is a "de Jure" part of Scotland, which is a Kingdom you hold. There's a neat little button on the main screen, in the lower right, that says "Show de Jure Kingdoms", which you can use to determine which Kingdoms give you CBs on what areas.

    For easier fights, however, you can declare war both on the Isle of Man (which is independent) and the various counties belonging to your independent neighbour, the Duchy of the Isles. These are also de Jure parts of Scotland, so you will have a magical, always-there CB - but because they're independent, they're easy pickings.

    You should send your chancellor to Fabricate Claims in Ireland - it's a mess of independent counties and duchies, and England will ignore it for as long as they're busy with Norway and Normandie. Use the "view de Jure Duchies" button to check which duchies consist only of two counties, and go for these as soon as possible. Once you have control of one county within one of these small Duchies, you can create or usurp the Duke title (a prompt will appear on the top of the screen), which will give you a "free" Casus Belli on the other county within that Duchy. By fabricating Claims on the right counties you can get a rolling, domino-like effect. Eventually you can crown yourself the King of Ireland too. When you're done there, go for Wales.
    This is great advice and what I'm doing in my Scotland game. The first thing you should do to strengthen yourself is increase the size of your demesne. Scotland is your realm; your demesne means the provinces you personally control. Anything you nab with a fabricated claim becomes your personal holding; also, when you declare war on an independent ruler with more than one county, if he personally holds a county, target that. I believe the Duke of the Isles holds the northernmost province in his realm; if you hover over the CB you intend to press, it will say whether you gain the holding, your vassal gains the holding, or the former ruler becomes your vassal.

  8. #28
    Maybe you should also take a look at this Let's Play/Tutorial: How the Hell Do We Play Crusader Kings 2? by Kersch. He explains the game step by step (better than I ever could) and shows what actions he takes and why.

    Edit: Not sure why it censors my link but if you are interested just search for "How the Hell Do We Play Crusader Kings 2?" on Google.
    Last edited by DukeDalenberg; 12-06-2012 at 22:25.

  9. #29
    . . . also , here is a video stream of one of the Project Team giving a tutorial on CK2 using the example of . . . the King of Scotland in 1066! Should get you started.
    http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive/b/308767819

  10. #30
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    Thanks guys that's all really helpful! What I'm currently doing is playing along to that Paradox instruction video and its going really well. In that video he used his claims to attack Caithness and take it from Norway. I guess I waited too long to do that because Orkney came in and took it instead. So I guess I've let that opportunity pass me by.

    I don't understand the prompt to create a title, or more specifically how to do it. When I click on it I get a blank list, if I click on the dejure tickbox (I don't know what that means either) then some things appear, but nothing I select allows me to create anything.
    I also have an opportunity to usurp someone, it's telling me. But when I click on it I get just as lost.

  11. #31
    If the dutchy of Orkney is the highest liege of Caithness, then now is your opertunity to take it, Norway is a kingdom, Orkney is not.

    As for creating and usurping, you need to mouse over buttons and stuff and read what it says, the tool tips will tell you what is required to create and what you will receive when you do.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroodingMonarch View Post
    Thanks guys that's all really helpful! What I'm currently doing is playing along to that Paradox instruction video and its going really well. In that video he used his claims to attack Caithness and take it from Norway. I guess I waited too long to do that because Orkney came in and took it instead. So I guess I've let that opportunity pass me by.

    I don't understand the prompt to create a title, or more specifically how to do it. When I click on it I get a blank list, if I click on the dejure tickbox (I don't know what that means either) then some things appear, but nothing I select allows me to create anything.
    I also have an opportunity to usurp someone, it's telling me. But when I click on it I get just as lost.
    When you click on the button telling you you can create a title, look in the upper left of the screen that comes up. You'll see a blue bar that says "Create". The rest of the screen is just info about the title, which you don't need and won't have anything in it until the title is created.

  13. #33
    Second Lieutenant BroodingMonarch's Avatar
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    Hey Everyone,

    I persisted with the game following all of your advice, and thanks to that, and my friend and I learning together on multiplayer, I know how to play now. I mean there is still the odd thing I don't understand, but I've got a grasp of the most important things.

    In my most recent game as a minor in Ireland two issues have come up. I started off as a minor noble with one county and rose up to unite all of Ireland. At one point I ended up playing as the Queen of Ireland who was married to the King of Aragon. They had three sons together. I immediately divorced him and married some Scottish guy and had a son with him. Then I was in the situation where the one of my bloodline was last in line after the three sons she had had with the King of Aragon. I resolved this by assassinating all of them, which was a costly, time consuming, and some what immoral thing to do :P Are there any alternatives to doing this in such a situation?

    The second thing is, last night I had my King marry the Queen of France and we had a son. I notice that the son is set to inherit both my Kingdom of Ireland and the Kingdom of France. I don't have any of those warnings telling me the game will end on the death of my King, so does this mean that when I play as that son I'll rule over both Ireland and France? I can't quite wrap my head around how this situation happened. I married the Queen of France so, she had no other children and thus our child was the only one who could inherit? Is that what likely happened?

    Anyway, thanks again guys. Really loving the game.

  14. #34
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    If you are a queen (or a king whose daughter is their heir) you must marry them matrilinerly. The option to do so is in a tick box above list when you arrange a marriage for them

    What this means is that any children produced will be of the mothers dynasty..... In this case yours, allowing you to continue.

    Protip: you can arrange matrilinial marrages for anyone in your court. If you arrange it for your daughters and sisters, you can get them matri married to some other unlanded chars in other countries. They will come to your court. Picking the one with say the best stewardship can get you a great steward......

  15. #35
    Play the tutorial, read about Feudalism on Wikipedia and when you declare war for a county you must go directly to the Norweigan king in the diplomacy screen to delare war.

  16. #36
    Second Lieutenant BroodingMonarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tapewormlondon View Post
    If you are a queen (or a king whose daughter is their heir) you must marry them matrilinerly. The option to do so is in a tick box above list when you arrange a marriage for them

    What this means is that any children produced will be of the mothers dynasty..... In this case yours, allowing you to continue.

    Protip: you can arrange matrilinial marrages for anyone in your court. If you arrange it for your daughters and sisters, you can get them matri married to some other unlanded chars in other countries. They will come to your court. Picking the one with say the best stewardship can get you a great steward......
    Yeah, that's exactly what I did when I married the Scottish guy, but the sons my new Queen had had with the King of Aragon were in the way of me passing my titles down my bloodline. Can't quite wrap my mind around that either, but I had the warnings telling me the game would be over if I didn't get my new son in line, so I killed all my oldest male children and the problem was solved.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroodingMonarch View Post
    I'm currently playing as King Malcolm of Scotland, at the earliest possible date. I appear to have a county to myself, and am surrounded by other Scottish counties. Because those counties are Scottish, and because I'm King, they're mine, right? And all the characters related to them are my subjects? I'm finding it very difficult to exercise any control, and I just think that because I've never played a game quite like this (in E.U. you have total control) I'm just not grasping a fundamental concept.

    A good example of this is that a Scottish Prince appears to have a claim on Caithness, currently owned by Norway, but I've no idea how on Earth to use this claim to attack them. After reading around I saw someone suggesting sending my emissary there. But all he seems able to do is forge a claim, but I shouldn't need to forge a claim, because I already have one don't I? Well, not me specifically, because I'm King Malcolm, but the Prince, my brother has a claim. So, is that relevant to me at all? It must be because I get a notice about it. So how can I use this claim? Or because a different character has it, is it up to him? Even though he's my brother and also of Scotland?

    I'm pretty confused.

    Also, could someone help define the terms for me? What's a duchy, for example? So many terms are used and I just have no idea what they mean in the game, and looking them up doesn't help.
    Demense and vassals

    In EU3, if you own a province, you own it, and that's all there is to it. CK is absolutely about personal relationships. You have what you own, and you have the loyalties of others. What you own is called your demense. The people who owe you loyalty are vassals.

    Your demense is a dependable source of tax money, and a dependable source of troops (which you have to pay for). It is good for it to be big, but not too big, because if it's too big, your vassals will like you less.

    Your vassals are a less dependable source of tax money, since if you tax them, they will like you less. What they are a good source of is troops that you can raise, and trouble.

    When a vassal is happy, he will let you raise a good portion of his troops as a levy. You don't have to pay for this even. It's his job to pay for the troops, it's what being a vassal is. You can use these to go conquer someone else. If this takes too long, your vassal will get progressively more displeased, but it takes a long time, and their memories of being displeased aren't long. Also, if it is you who is being attacked, your vassals won't get angry if you raise their levies.

    When a vassal is not happy, he won't let you raise many troops, and he might rebel.

    So essentially, your demense is your economic engine unless you want to try to get away with taxing your vassals, and your vassals are your military engine. Your demense is a backup military engine that you can use to augment your vassals, or when your vassals feel that they have done enough for you.

    Having a lot of happy vassals is good, because you end up with an enormous military, which is good for both attack and defense, but it won't improve your economy much.

    Courts and claims

    Every holding (kingdom, duchy, county, barony) has a court. Your court is people sitting in your holding. It's also the rulers of your vassal holdings. So if you have a guy with high stewardship, you can make him your steward if he's running one of your holdings, or if he's in your court. If you want to make someone the ruler of a holding, you can use anyone in your court, or you can use anyone in your vassals' courts (your realm). So your vassals' courts are a source of people as well.

    A claim is a valid cause for war. Some claims you get yourself, and some may be held by the people in your court. If a claim is yours, you get the benefit. If a claim is someone else's, and you go to war for it, you may not get the benefit, depending upon how you define "benefit". If you press a claim for someone in your dynasty, or for an area that you have a dejure claim on (essentially a core, to use an EU3 term), the claimant will be your vassal if the claim is for a title that's lower than yours. Meaning, if you are a duke, and your brother Bob has a claim on an adjacent county, and you press it, he'll be your vassal. If you have a dejure claim on a county and you press it for some random guy, he'll be your vassal. If you press a claim for some random guy, he'll end up independent.

    So what does this mean? You can give yourself claims by fabricating them. You can give yourself claims by taking enough counties in a dukedom that you can create the duke title (or usurp (steal) it), at which point you have a dejure claim. You can give yourself claims by marrying someone with a claim, but this gets very complicated.

    As a king, if you marry someone with a claim that can be inherited, your children will get the claim, but if you are not careful, and depending upon which parent dies first, they may inherit outside of your realm. Different inheritance laws can complicate things and I won't go into that.

    The bottom line is that this game is different and possibly better than EU3, because it has a higher degree of strategy and complexity. You don't get colonization, but you get personal relationships, and that is something almost completely absent from EU3.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroodingMonarch View Post
    I guess the first thing I should do is increase my Crown Authority and sort my own neighbourhood out like you said. But why do I want to take people's titles? And wouldn't increasing my Crown Authority increase it over all of Scotland? Isn't Fife already mine to control? Sorry, I can't get my head around this.
    The barrier is in the mindset - and I see other comments/suggestions along these lines - but, explicitly, yes you are king of scotland and lord of the realm, but you do not directly control or rule all that terriority. Other lords, with their own interests, are ruling pieces of it for you. You are influencing and suggesting for those areas under their control - sometimes with charm, sometimes with money, and sometimes with the sword (yes, even within 'your own' lands).

    One tactic is to take others' titles so you get that direct control/financial reward. It risks alienating your lords. There are many options, but it sounds like you're getting there on your own now.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroodingMonarch View Post
    Yeah, that's exactly what I did when I married the Scottish guy, but the sons my new Queen had had with the King of Aragon were in the way of me passing my titles down my bloodline. Can't quite wrap my mind around that either, but I had the warnings telling me the game would be over if I didn't get my new son in line, so I killed all my oldest male children and the problem was solved.
    Yep - it is all about the name. One son had your family's, the others didn't. In that case, what you did was the only thing a good mother in a strong dynasty could do.
    Last edited by Chyll; 22-06-2012 at 19:30. Reason: clarity

  19. #39
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    One thing to bear in mind when marrying off your siblings and children: all members of a dynasty get a relationship boost to members of the same dynasty. And all LANDED members of a dynasty contribute to that dynasty's overall score (the score can be accessed by pressing the dynasty coat-of-arms in the character view). This is why marrying sons/brothers/uncles to female rulers, and marrying daughters/sisters/aunts matrilinearly is of prime importance. Their children stand to inherit and are of your dynasty. So if you are King of Scotland and marry the ruling Queen of England your firstborn will be of your dynasty and stand to inherit both kingdoms. Export your dynasty to all the realms on the map.

  20. #40
    What you could have done to avoid murdering your children was change the succession law to elective or seniority. Seniority would pass your titles to the oldest living dynasty member of yours, while elective would allow you to pick your preferred (i.e. dynastic) son and hopefully get your vassals to follow suit. Of course your ex-husband and his sons would be peeved at you for doing this, but the other 3 sons would still be potential allies (as half-siblings) if your youngest son inherited.

    I think even gavelkind would work; dividing up your lands among all 4 sons, hardly an ideal idea as you'd lose the kingdom of Ireland to your eldest, and your dynastic son would inherit the least, but it could be fun to work your way up from that.

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