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Thread: Observations of rebel abuse

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    Observations of rebel abuse

    I started playing around with patriot rebels a bit more and here are my observations:
    1. You can always sponsor patriot rebels in any different culture province you or anyone else occupy.
    2. Rebels will always siege the province they are spawned from. If the province is occupied by the sponsor, they will target a different province instead. Sometimes, they'd also instantly despawn if there are no valid targets (not sure how that's determined, but that often happens if you are spawning them in an OPM that is deeply surrounded by you)
    3. Rebels are awfully weak and it'd take at least 2x numerical advantage to defeat a normal army.
    4. Rebels will only go back and forth between two provinces. If one or more of the provinces defected they may become regular troops, continue sieging the defected provinces, or choose new provinces to target (if those defected provinces now belong to the sponsor)
    5. Rebels will preferentially defect to same-culture targets that have cores on the province where they were spawned from

    Here's a pretty reliable strategy that appear to work very well against OPM and 2PM's:
    - Get into a war with the country of interest.
    - Occupy its provinces and destroy all of its armies. If it has allies that are near its provinces, destroy their armies as well. Always make sure the countries that occupy these provinces are not same culture (or patriot rebels will not spawn).
    - Wait for the OPM to offer you peace (hopefully, it's just free money or white peace but nothing that costs infamy) - Don't accept it
    - Cover its provinces with rebels. Ideally one patriot stack per province. Spawn more if you think they have a chance to walk over and take down another OPM/2PM. For instance, if you spawn a large stack in Leipzig, there's a pretty good chance it'd walk right over to Meissen or Dresden and continue on.
    - Immediately accept the peace treaty offered by the target country (or war leader). Do not let a day pass (you want the rebels to siege the province they are on and not move)
    - Wait for the country to break (fingers cross for that country not getting into a war and have the rebels killed by allies/enemies)
    - The ultimate benefactors of these provinces can be quite random, but with enough repetitions of this trick, you'd eventually send the provinces to their "rightful" owners since each iteration kills off one or more contenders.

    This strategy works especially well against OPMs and 2PMs, since they are weak and can be quickly broken. Larger countries like Bavaria and Milan are tougher since it's harder to carpet them.

    To form Germany, it's conceivable that you can PU a Hannoverian, a Bavarian, and a Saxon minor and work to have the desired provinces to defect to them. Mecklenburg is a bit trickier, since patriot rebels will preferentially defect to Pommerania and I am not sure if they will ever defect to Saxon countries.

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    I suppose the strategies of using rebels are so well-established by others that it doesn't worth a discussion

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    Field Marshal DDRJake's Avatar
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    I mostly use them for cleaning up the borders of my vassals infamy free. For example, if I vassalise a very weak Sweden who has had most of their land eaten up by England, I'll keep England under naval blockade and carpet Scandinavia with rebels so they return to Sweden. Time time it takes for defection to take place can be irritatingly long however. Not to mention the times when another nation walks over an undoes all your work.

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    I'd use rebels more if I didn't suffer the prestige hit from discovery as often. Do you know how to reduce the likelyhood of discovery? I'm certain spy efficiency and spy defense is tied to spy success rate, but I'm not sure how it squares with discovery.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DDRJake View Post
    Not to mention the times when another nation walks over an undoes all your work.
    Pretty much this. Particularly when you are at the multiple vassals stage of the game.

    Another fun trick is to let nationalist rebels occupy one of your provinces and break free giving you an infamy-free secession war for all provinces that break free.

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    Командир Батаљона DanubianCossak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brifbates View Post
    Another fun trick is to let nationalist rebels occupy one of your provinces and break free giving you an infamy-free secession war for all provinces that break free.
    Yep that can work like a charm!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanubianCossak View Post
    Yep that can work like a charm!
    How does that work? Any province that is subjected to defected province CB?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ywhtptgtfo View Post
    How does that work? Any province that is subjected to defected province CB?
    Well, i think it works like this:

    You own a province of another culture, or culture_group. Right next to you is another country that owns a province of that same culture (like the one you own) but is also not of its primary_culture or culture_group. Lets say that neighbour country gets in trouble, say, it loses a war. A nationalist rebel pops up. It besieges a province owned by them, and then proceeds to the province owned by you - if they besiege your province and theirs, after certain amount of time (32 months i think) they will declare independence. If a country declares independence from you - even if it revolts via only 1 of your provinces - you get 0 bb / province annexed code-triggered CB. So back, to our example, if that rebels stack, now controlling 2 provinces, declares independence, you can annex not only the province you owned, but also the other one as well, all for 0 bb. There is just one small problem: currently rebel AI is pretty retarded. In most situations it will besiege 2 provinces / stack / group of stacks and simply walk between them forever. But sometimes in a large cultured area you can get lucky, and by sacrificing 1 province, you can end up with a BB free CB on a decently sized country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ywhtptgtfo View Post
    How does that work? Any province that is subjected to defected province CB?
    The trick is to let them only occupy one of your provinces and plenty of other outside your realm. When the new country forms you are placed in a unification war with it. Since you can always annex your opponents in a unification war for 0 bb you can quite handily expand that way.
    For example I once took the two imperial provinces from poland as Austria, let Mazovian nationalists spawn in the intact remainder of Poland, carefully guided them to control one of my provinces and the rest of poland (took a bit of effort and gameyness but it worked). I then annexed the emerging MazoviaPoland for 0 bb.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DanubianCossak View Post
    There is just one small problem: currently rebel AI is pretty retarded. In most situations it will besiege 2 provinces / stack / group of stacks and simply walk between them forever. But sometimes in a large cultured area you can get lucky, and by sacrificing 1 province, you can end up with a BB free CB on a decently sized country.
    You can use armies to "push" rebels into other provinces than their normal two as given the option they will retreat into an allowable unoccupied province. Even getting one province infamy free can be noticeable in areas where you don't have good CBs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brifbates View Post
    You can use armies to "push" rebels into other provinces than their normal two as given the option they will retreat into an allowable unoccupied province. Even getting one province infamy free can be noticeable in areas where you don't have good CBs.
    True, but to me its too much hassle, and a bit too gamey. Dont get me wrong, id still do it if i were desperate enough, like i was in my recent Bosnia game (Hungary kicked my butt).
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    I think they will move to the neighbouring provinces with the highest RR without troops. If they are moving back and forth between two provinces, then it is time to move in your troops and convince them to go somewhere else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanubianCossak View Post
    True, but to me its too much hassle, and a bit too gamey. Dont get me wrong, id still do it if i were desperate enough, like i was in my recent Bosnia game (Hungary kicked my butt).
    Serbia is the best southern Slavic nation. Should've picked that instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanubianCossak View Post
    Well, i think it works like this:

    You own a province of another culture, or culture_group. Right next to you is another country that owns a province of that same culture (like the one you own) but is also not of its primary_culture or culture_group. Lets say that neighbour country gets in trouble, say, it loses a war. A nationalist rebel pops up. It besieges a province owned by them, and then proceeds to the province owned by you - if they besiege your province and theirs, after certain amount of time (32 months i think) they will declare independence. If a country declares independence from you - even if it revolts via only 1 of your provinces - you get 0 bb / province annexed code-triggered CB. So back, to our example, if that rebels stack, now controlling 2 provinces, declares independence, you can annex not only the province you owned, but also the other one as well, all for 0 bb. There is just one small problem: currently rebel AI is pretty retarded. In most situations it will besiege 2 provinces / stack / group of stacks and simply walk between them forever. But sometimes in a large cultured area you can get lucky, and by sacrificing 1 province, you can end up with a BB free CB on a decently sized country.
    That's pretty cool. I didn't know that. While the rebel A.I. is retarded, you can often game them in a way to get what you want. Personally, I am quite past the point of relying on them walking to the right provinces. I'd much rather just manually spawn a stack of rebels for every province I'd like to target. But of course, this also means espionage is only for rich countries that invest in colleges.

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    Командир Батаљона DanubianCossak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ywhtptgtfo View Post
    Serbia is the best southern Slavic nation. Should've picked that instead.
    I dont play vanilla, so there is no Serbia to start as, although Bosnia can form Serbia if it holds right provinces, which is what i did earlier today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanubianCossak View Post
    I dont play vanilla, so there is no Serbia to start as, although Bosnia can form Serbia if it holds right provinces, which is what i did earlier today.
    I no longer play vanilla either (playing D&T). It's too bad that Bosnia revolted from this cultural union eh?

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    Командир Батаљона DanubianCossak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ywhtptgtfo View Post
    I no longer play vanilla either (playing D&T). It's too bad that Bosnia revolted from this cultural union eh?
    Not sure what you mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanubianCossak View Post
    Not sure what you mean.
    Sorry, bad joke. You said Bosnia can form Serbia and I immediately thought of it revolting out of Serbia (much like England declaring independence from Great Britain in all those games).

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