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  1. #1

    Georgia

    Hi,

    i am at the moment playing a game as Georgia and as a part of this game i tried to find out what Georgia once controlled and so i found out that the map is not correct if use the english wikipedia, so i made a list of changes and here it is :

    2581 Kars (Core of Georgia)

    1356-1387 Georgia
    1387-1403 Timurids (occupied)
    1403-1465 Georgia
    1465-1628 Samtskhe-Saatabago (since 1514 Vassal of Ottomans)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    }
    1384.1.1 = {
    owner = TIM
    controller = TIM
    add_core = TIM
    }
    1402.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    } # Independance granted by Tamerlane
    1450.1.1 = { citysize = 11900 }
    1453.1.1 = { discovered_by = western }
    # 1465.1.1 = { owner = x
    # controller = x
    # add_core = x }
    # x = Samtskhe-Saatabago
    1500.1.1 = { citysize = 14480 }
    1501.1.1 = {
    owner = PER
    controller = PER
    add_core = PER
    remove_core = AKK
    } # The Safavids took over
    # 1514.1.1 Vassal of Ottomans, Vassal of Persia before since 1501



    Hayastan (Core of Georgia)

    1356-1357 Georgia
    1356-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    remove_core = CHU
    }



    Syunik

    1356-1357 Georgia
    1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = CHU
    } # Independance secured
    1465.1.1 = {
    remove_core = GEO }



    2577 Aran

    1356-1357 Georgia
    1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = CHU
    } # Independance secured
    1465.1.1 = {
    remove_core = GEO }



    Shemakha

    -Part of Shirvan (core of Georgia until 1465) (independent until 1538 as vassal of Golden Horde, Timurids or Safavids)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = SHI
    controller = SHI
    add_core = SHI
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    } # Vassal of Georgia until 1357
    # 1357.1.1 Vassal of Blue Horde
    1375.1.1 = {
    remove_core = CHU }
    # 1384.1.1 Vassal of Timurids
    # 1405.1.1 free
    1465.1.1 = {
    remove_core = GEO }
    # 1501.1.1 Vassal of Persia
    1500.1.1 = {
    citysize = 6000
    }
    1538.1.1 = {
    owner = PER
    controller = PER
    add_core = PER
    } # The Safavids took over



    Shirvan, Derbent

    -Part of Shirvan (core of Georgia until 1465) (independent until 1538 as vassal of Golden Horde, Timurids or Safavids)

    1356.1.1 = {
    add_core = GEO }
    1465.1.1 = {
    remove_core = GEO }



    Noxciyo, Kizlyor

    -(core of Georgia until 1465) part of Avar Khanate until 1502 then Kazi-Kumukh

    1356.1.1 = {
    # owner = x
    # controller = X
    # add_core = x
    add_core = GEO
    add_core = CIR }
    # x = Avar Khanate or Kazi-Kumukh or Dagestan
    1465.1.1 = {
    remove_core = GEO }



    Trebizond

    -vassal of Georgia, Center of Trade until 1461
    (The destruction of Baghdad by Hulagu Khan in 1258 made Trebizond the western terminus of the Silk Road, and under the protection of the Mongols the city grew to tremendous wealth on the Silk Road trade. Among others, Marco Polo returned to Europe by way of Trebizond in 1295. Under the rule of Alexios III (1349–1390) the city was one of the world's leading trade centres and was renowned for its great wealth and artistic accomplishment./http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Trebizond)

    cot = yes



    Karbada

    1356-1465 Georgia
    1465-1505 Kartli
    1505-1516 Persia
    1516-x Kazi-Kumukh (independent of Persia and Russia)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = GEO
    add_core = CIR
    }
    1466.1.1 = {
    owner = KRT
    controller = KRT
    add_core = KRT
    remove_core = GEO
    }
    1500.1.1 = { citysize = 4570 }
    1505.1.1 = {
    owner = PER
    controller = PER
    add_core = PER
    remove_core = KRT
    }
    1516.1.1 = {
    owner = CIR
    controller = CIR
    # owner = x
    # controller = X
    # add_core = x
    remove_core = PER
    }
    # x = Kazi-Kumukh or Dagestan



    2576 Herethi (Core of Georgia)

    1356-1387 Georgia
    1387-1403 Timurids
    1403-1465 Georgia
    1465-x Kakheti

    1384.1.1 = {
    owner = TIM
    controller = TIM
    }
    1402.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    }
    1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
    1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
    1466.1.1 = {
    owner = KAK
    controller = KAK
    add_core = KAK
    add_core = KRT
    remove_core = GEO
    }



    Kartli (Core of Georgia)

    -own state after 1465 (between Ottomans and Persia) core of Kakheti

    1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
    1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
    1466.1.1 = {
    owner = KRT
    controller = KRT
    add_core = KRT
    add_core = KAK
    remove_core = GEO
    }



    Kakheti (Core of Georgia)

    -own state after 1465 (vassal of Persia since 1605) core of Kartli

    1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
    1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
    1466.1.1 = {
    owner = KAK
    controller = KAK
    add_core = KAK
    add_core = KRT
    remove_core = GEO
    }



    Imeretia (Core of Georgia)

    -own state after 1465 (vassal of Ottomans)



    Abkhazia (Core of Georgia)

    -own state after 1465 or part of Imeretia (vassal of Ottomans) core of Imeretia



    Tao-Klarjeti (Core of Georgia)

    -own state after 1465 or part of Imeretia (vassal of Ottomans) core of Imeretia

    1466.1.1 = {
    owner = IME
    controller = IME
    add_core = IME
    remove_core = GEO
    }

    The sources i used :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Trebizond
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trebizond1400.png
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ge...g_George_V.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg

    Etwas weiteres :
    Die Provinz Kars sollte Trebizond berühren oder es sollte eine neue Provinz zwischen Kars and, Erzincan und Trebizond namens Samzche geben.

  2. #2
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefusion View Post
    [...]

    Etwas weiteres :
    Die Provinz Kars sollte Trebizond berühren oder es sollte eine neue Provinz zwischen Kars and, Erzincan und Trebizond namens Samzche geben.
    Please, in english

    I think (from my old german lessons nearly 20 years ago) you want a new province. I'll need to know more... is it that important ?


    Thanks for the other data, i'll be looking into it as soon as possible.
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  3. #3
    Ninja Pirate Baikal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post


    Please, in english

    I think (from my old german lessons nearly 20 years ago) you want a new province. I'll need to know more... is it that important ?


    Thanks for the other data, i'll be looking into it as soon as possible.
    He said the province of Kars should border the province Trebizond. Or, alternatively there shoulde be a new province named Samzche in between Kars, Trebizond and Erzincan.
    Cynic, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
    -Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

  4. #4
    Lt. General NorwayBernd's Avatar
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    Roughly translated, he says:
    "The province Kars should have a border with Trebizond or there should be a new province called Samzche between Kars, Erzincan and and Trebizond"


    EDIT: Dammit! Beat me to it!
    GENERATION 38: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Baikal View Post
    He said the province of Kars should border the province Trebizond. Or, alternatively there shoulde be a new province named Samzche in between Kars, Trebizond and Erzincan.
    That is what i mean !
    Sry for german.

    I also found out sth. is wrong in my first post, Hayastan, Syunik and Aran go to Jalayrids or Georgia in 1360 and 1375 to Qara Koyunlu, so it is like that :

    Hayastan (Core of Georgia)

    1356-1357 Georgia
    1356-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = CHU
    }
    1405.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    } # Death of Tamerlane
    1468.1.1 = {
    owner = AKK
    controller = AKK
    add_core = AKK
    remove_core = TIM
    }



    Syunik

    1356-1357 Georgia
    1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    add_core = JAI
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = CHU
    remove_core = JAI
    } # Independance secured
    1465.1.1 = {
    remove_core = GEO }



    2577 Aran

    1356-1357 Georgia
    1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

    1356.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    add_core = CHU
    add_core = GEO
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    add_core = JAI
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = CHU
    remove_core = JAI
    } # Independance secured
    1465.1.1 = {
    remove_core = GEO }

    Still something wrong Kakheti and Kartli were occupied by Timurids:

    Kartli (Core of Georgia)

    -own state after 1465 (between Ottomans and Persia) core of Kakheti

    1384.1.1 = {
    owner = TIM
    controller = TIM
    }
    1402.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    }
    1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
    1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
    1466.1.1 = {
    owner = KRT
    controller = KRT
    add_core = KRT
    add_core = KAK
    remove_core = GEO
    }



    Kakheti (Core of Georgia)

    -own state after 1465 (vassal of Persia since 1605) core of Kartli

    1384.1.1 = {
    owner = TIM
    controller = TIM
    }
    1402.1.1 = {
    owner = GEO
    controller = GEO
    }
    1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
    1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
    1466.1.1 = {
    owner = KAK
    controller = KAK
    add_core = KAK
    add_core = KRT
    remove_core = GEO
    }

    I am looking at Persian Azerbaijan at the moment.
    Last edited by Clonefusion; 09-06-2012 at 16:25.

  6. #6
    Ninja Pirate Baikal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefusion View Post
    That is what i mean !
    Sry for german.
    Not a problem! I think this forum is cosmopolitan enough that there's somebody bound to come by to help with such things sooner or later.
    Cynic, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
    -Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

  7. #7
    Tabriz is capital of Qara Koyunlu, so it should become province of Qara in 1375:

    Tabriz

    1356.1.1 = {
    revolt_risk = 4
    add_core = CHU
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    add_core = JAI
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = JAI
    remove_core = CHU
    }

    Qara Koyunlu should be vassal of Jalayrids until 1396 or 1388.
    Vaspurakan´s Culture should probably be Armenian as well as Syunik probably too, but u need to decide, maybe create an event which makes it Armenian under Armenian and Georgian, Syunik should Azerbaijan under other rule, Vaspurakan Kurdish under Kurdish or Persian or Iraqi rule, Azerbaijan under Azerbaijan under Azerbaijan or Turkish rule.
    For Van the same should be made Armenian under Georgian or Armenian rule, else Kurdish.

    Vaspurakan, Urmia, Marageh and Soltaniyeh should also probably be part of Qara Koyunlu since 1375, but as vassal of Jalayrids, i will post the code later, i am just researching.
    Last edited by Clonefusion; 09-06-2012 at 16:48.

  8. #8
    God of the Mega Campaign Moderator Mr. Capiatlist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baikal View Post
    Not a problem! I think this forum is cosmopolitan enough that there's somebody bound to come by to help with such things sooner or later.
    Except that posting in a language other than English outside of the specific language boards is against forum rules.
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  9. #9
    The code:

    Vaspurakan

    1356.1.1 = {
    revolt_risk = 4
    add_core = CHU
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    add_core = JAI
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = JAI
    remove_core = CHU
    }



    Urmia

    1356.1.1 = {
    revolt_risk = 4
    add_core = CHU
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    add_core = JAI
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = JAI
    remove_core = CHU
    }



    Maragheh

    1356.1.1 = {
    revolt_risk = 4
    add_core = CHU
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    add_core = JAI
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = JAI
    remove_core = CHU
    }



    Soltaniyeh

    1356.1.1 = {
    revolt_risk = 4
    add_core = CHU
    }
    1357.1.1 = {
    owner = BLU
    controller = BLU
    }
    1360.1.1 = {
    owner = JAI
    controller = JAI
    add_core = JAI
    }
    1375.1.1 = {
    owner = QAR
    controller = QAR
    add_core = QAR
    remove_core = JAI
    remove_core = CHU
    }

    Now lets look over Ak-Koyunlu!

    I did not found out much, wikipedia says at one point their history begins in 1378, then they beat the Eretnids in 1352 and got land around 1402, so i would just let them like they are.
    Maybe they should be vassals of Jalayrids since 1360 and not part of their territory, and become vassals of Qara Koyunlu in 1410, but be free since 1393.
    Van and Mus should also be Armenian under Georgian or Armenian, Kurdish under Kurdish, Persian or Azerbaijan Rule, Mus should be Turkish under Turkish Rule.

    I think that was it for now !
    Last edited by Clonefusion; 09-06-2012 at 18:23.

  10. #10
    Sayonara Zetsubou Robusuta
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    Kars for sure should belong to Georgia along with Herethi (which should also be Georgian culture) but after checking the references for the maps, at the game start of 1356 Yerevan/Hayastan was lost to Georgia in 1236 and Syunik and Aran being controlled to the Ilkhanate even longer ago. Also indeed Georgia had long been the masters of the Shirvanshahs (the vassalage ended 1243) but I don't see how that justifies cores for provinces Georgia never actually controlled from a vassal from over a hundred years earlier

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Kars for sure should belong to Georgia along with Herethi (which should also be Georgian culture) but after checking the references for the maps, at the game start of 1356 Yerevan/Hayastan was lost to Georgia in 1236 and Syunik and Aran being controlled to the Ilkhanate even longer ago. Also indeed Georgia had long been the masters of the Shirvanshahs (the vassalage ended 1243) but I don't see how that justifies cores for provinces Georgia never actually controlled from a vassal from over a hundred years earlier
    Yerevan/Hayastan was recaptured by George V of Georgia, as well as Syunik and Aran, he also made Shirvan a vassal of Georgia again, look here :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V_of_Georgia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ge...g_George_V.jpg

  12. #12
    Sayonara Zetsubou Robusuta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefusion View Post
    Yerevan/Hayastan was recaptured by George V of Georgia, as well as Syunik and Aran, he also made Shirvan a vassal of Georgia again, look here :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V_of_Georgia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ge...g_George_V.jpg
    Ah, my terrible German once again causes problems

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg

    I misread the map and though it was 'a map of 1380' and instead it was a map of 'the end of the 1380's' which means that it takes place before Timur's invasions of Georgia in 1386. You are very much right about the Georgian control of Armenia.

    I really need to work on my German, sorry

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Ah, my terrible German once again causes problems

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg

    I misread the map and though it was 'a map of 1380' and instead it was a map of 'the end of the 1380's' which means that it takes place before Timur's invasions of Georgia in 1386. You are very much right about the Georgian control of Armenia.

    I really need to work on my German, sorry
    U can answer me with german, i am german and so its not a problem, but np.

  14. #14
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    Thanks for the historical data


    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefusion View Post
    U can answer me with german, i am german and so its not a problem, but np.
    Just remember to either do it by private message, or at the very least in bilingual
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post
    Thanks for the historical data




    Just remember to either do it by private message, or at the very least in bilingual
    I was last year for 1 year in the US, so that should be no problem

  16. #16
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefusion View Post
    I was last year for 1 year in the US, so that should be no problem
    What i meant is that, when i've, once or twice, posted in french here, i always put the text in italic, and added the english translation. Wasn't implying your english was not good enough or anything stupid like that
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