Georgia

[Clonefusion]

Hi,

i am at the moment playing a game as Georgia and as a part of this game i tried to find out what Georgia once controlled and so i found out that the map is not correct if use the english wikipedia, so i made a list of changes and here it is :

2581 Kars (Core of Georgia)

1356-1387 Georgia
1387-1403 Timurids (occupied)
1403-1465 Georgia
1465-1628 Samtskhe-Saatabago (since 1514 Vassal of Ottomans)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
}
1384.1.1 = {
owner = TIM
controller = TIM
add_core = TIM
}
1402.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
} # Independance granted by Tamerlane
1450.1.1 = { citysize = 11900 }
1453.1.1 = { discovered_by = western }
# 1465.1.1 = { owner = x
# controller = x
# add_core = x }
# x = Samtskhe-Saatabago
1500.1.1 = { citysize = 14480 }
1501.1.1 = {
owner = PER
controller = PER
add_core = PER
remove_core = AKK
} # The Safavids took over
# 1514.1.1 Vassal of Ottomans, Vassal of Persia before since 1501



Hayastan (Core of Georgia)

1356-1357 Georgia
1356-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
remove_core = CHU
}



Syunik

1356-1357 Georgia
1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = CHU
} # Independance secured
1465.1.1 = {
remove_core = GEO }



2577 Aran

1356-1357 Georgia
1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = CHU
} # Independance secured
1465.1.1 = {
remove_core = GEO }



Shemakha

-Part of Shirvan (core of Georgia until 1465) (independent until 1538 as vassal of Golden Horde, Timurids or Safavids)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = SHI
controller = SHI
add_core = SHI
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
} # Vassal of Georgia until 1357
# 1357.1.1 Vassal of Blue Horde
1375.1.1 = {
remove_core = CHU }
# 1384.1.1 Vassal of Timurids
# 1405.1.1 free
1465.1.1 = {
remove_core = GEO }
# 1501.1.1 Vassal of Persia
1500.1.1 = {
citysize = 6000
}
1538.1.1 = {
owner = PER
controller = PER
add_core = PER
} # The Safavids took over



Shirvan, Derbent

-Part of Shirvan (core of Georgia until 1465) (independent until 1538 as vassal of Golden Horde, Timurids or Safavids)

1356.1.1 = {
add_core = GEO }
1465.1.1 = {
remove_core = GEO }



Noxciyo, Kizlyor

-(core of Georgia until 1465) part of Avar Khanate until 1502 then Kazi-Kumukh

1356.1.1 = {
# owner = x
# controller = X
# add_core = x
add_core = GEO
add_core = CIR }
# x = Avar Khanate or Kazi-Kumukh or Dagestan
1465.1.1 = {
remove_core = GEO }



Trebizond

-vassal of Georgia, Center of Trade until 1461
(The destruction of Baghdad by Hulagu Khan in 1258 made Trebizond the western terminus of the Silk Road, and under the protection of the Mongols the city grew to tremendous wealth on the Silk Road trade. Among others, Marco Polo returned to Europe by way of Trebizond in 1295. Under the rule of Alexios III (1349–1390) the city was one of the world's leading trade centres and was renowned for its great wealth and artistic accomplishment./http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Trebizond)

cot = yes



Karbada

1356-1465 Georgia
1465-1505 Kartli
1505-1516 Persia
1516-x Kazi-Kumukh (independent of Persia and Russia)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = GEO
add_core = CIR
}
1466.1.1 = {
owner = KRT
controller = KRT
add_core = KRT
remove_core = GEO
}
1500.1.1 = { citysize = 4570 }
1505.1.1 = {
owner = PER
controller = PER
add_core = PER
remove_core = KRT
}
1516.1.1 = {
owner = CIR
controller = CIR
# owner = x
# controller = X
# add_core = x
remove_core = PER
}
# x = Kazi-Kumukh or Dagestan



2576 Herethi (Core of Georgia)

1356-1387 Georgia
1387-1403 Timurids
1403-1465 Georgia
1465-x Kakheti

1384.1.1 = {
owner = TIM
controller = TIM
}
1402.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
}
1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
1466.1.1 = {
owner = KAK
controller = KAK
add_core = KAK
add_core = KRT
remove_core = GEO
}



Kartli (Core of Georgia)

-own state after 1465 (between Ottomans and Persia) core of Kakheti

1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
1466.1.1 = {
owner = KRT
controller = KRT
add_core = KRT
add_core = KAK
remove_core = GEO
}



Kakheti (Core of Georgia)

-own state after 1465 (vassal of Persia since 1605) core of Kartli

1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
1466.1.1 = {
owner = KAK
controller = KAK
add_core = KAK
add_core = KRT
remove_core = GEO
}



Imeretia (Core of Georgia)

-own state after 1465 (vassal of Ottomans)



Abkhazia (Core of Georgia)

-own state after 1465 or part of Imeretia (vassal of Ottomans) core of Imeretia



Tao-Klarjeti (Core of Georgia)

-own state after 1465 or part of Imeretia (vassal of Ottomans) core of Imeretia

1466.1.1 = {
owner = IME
controller = IME
add_core = IME
remove_core = GEO
}

The sources i used :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Trebizond
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trebizond1400.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ge...g_George_V.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg

Etwas weiteres :
Die Provinz Kars sollte Trebizond berühren oder es sollte eine neue Provinz zwischen Kars and, Erzincan und Trebizond namens Samzche geben.

[gigau]

[...]

Etwas weiteres :
Die Provinz Kars sollte Trebizond berühren oder es sollte eine neue Provinz zwischen Kars and, Erzincan und Trebizond namens Samzche geben.

Please, in english

I think (from my old german lessons nearly 20 years ago) you want a new province. I'll need to know more... is it that important ?


Thanks for the other data, i'll be looking into it as soon as possible.

[Baikal]

Please, in english

I think (from my old german lessons nearly 20 years ago) you want a new province. I'll need to know more... is it that important ?


Thanks for the other data, i'll be looking into it as soon as possible.

He said the province of Kars should border the province Trebizond. Or, alternatively there shoulde be a new province named Samzche in between Kars, Trebizond and Erzincan.

[NorwayBernd]

Roughly translated, he says:
"The province Kars should have a border with Trebizond or there should be a new province called Samzche between Kars, Erzincan and and Trebizond"


EDIT: Dammit! Beat me to it!

[Clonefusion]

He said the province of Kars should border the province Trebizond. Or, alternatively there shoulde be a new province named Samzche in between Kars, Trebizond and Erzincan.

That is what i mean !
Sry for german.

I also found out sth. is wrong in my first post, Hayastan, Syunik and Aran go to Jalayrids or Georgia in 1360 and 1375 to Qara Koyunlu, so it is like that :

Hayastan (Core of Georgia)

1356-1357 Georgia
1356-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = CHU
}
1405.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
} # Death of Tamerlane
1468.1.1 = {
owner = AKK
controller = AKK
add_core = AKK
remove_core = TIM
}



Syunik

1356-1357 Georgia
1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
add_core = JAI
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = CHU
remove_core = JAI
} # Independance secured
1465.1.1 = {
remove_core = GEO }



2577 Aran

1356-1357 Georgia
1357-1375 Blue Horde (then Jalayrids) (core of Georgia until 1465)

1356.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
add_core = CHU
add_core = GEO
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
add_core = JAI
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = CHU
remove_core = JAI
} # Independance secured
1465.1.1 = {
remove_core = GEO }

Still something wrong Kakheti and Kartli were occupied by Timurids:

Kartli (Core of Georgia)

-own state after 1465 (between Ottomans and Persia) core of Kakheti

1384.1.1 = {
owner = TIM
controller = TIM
}
1402.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
}
1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
1466.1.1 = {
owner = KRT
controller = KRT
add_core = KRT
add_core = KAK
remove_core = GEO
}



Kakheti (Core of Georgia)

-own state after 1465 (vassal of Persia since 1605) core of Kartli

1384.1.1 = {
owner = TIM
controller = TIM
}
1402.1.1 = {
owner = GEO
controller = GEO
}
1458.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 5 } # Safavid campaign against Georgia
1460.1.1 = { revolt_risk = 0 } # Defeated by Shirwan Shah
1466.1.1 = {
owner = KAK
controller = KAK
add_core = KAK
add_core = KRT
remove_core = GEO
}

I am looking at Persian Azerbaijan at the moment.

[Baikal]

That is what i mean !
Sry for german.

Not a problem! I think this forum is cosmopolitan enough that there's somebody bound to come by to help with such things sooner or later.

[Clonefusion]

Tabriz is capital of Qara Koyunlu, so it should become province of Qara in 1375:

Tabriz

1356.1.1 = {
revolt_risk = 4
add_core = CHU
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
add_core = JAI
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = JAI
remove_core = CHU
}

Qara Koyunlu should be vassal of Jalayrids until 1396 or 1388.
Vaspurakan´s Culture should probably be Armenian as well as Syunik probably too, but u need to decide, maybe create an event which makes it Armenian under Armenian and Georgian, Syunik should Azerbaijan under other rule, Vaspurakan Kurdish under Kurdish or Persian or Iraqi rule, Azerbaijan under Azerbaijan under Azerbaijan or Turkish rule.
For Van the same should be made Armenian under Georgian or Armenian rule, else Kurdish.

Vaspurakan, Urmia, Marageh and Soltaniyeh should also probably be part of Qara Koyunlu since 1375, but as vassal of Jalayrids, i will post the code later, i am just researching.

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Not a problem! I think this forum is cosmopolitan enough that there's somebody bound to come by to help with such things sooner or later.

Except that posting in a language other than English outside of the specific language boards is against forum rules.

[Clonefusion]

The code:

Vaspurakan

1356.1.1 = {
revolt_risk = 4
add_core = CHU
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
add_core = JAI
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = JAI
remove_core = CHU
}



Urmia

1356.1.1 = {
revolt_risk = 4
add_core = CHU
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
add_core = JAI
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = JAI
remove_core = CHU
}



Maragheh

1356.1.1 = {
revolt_risk = 4
add_core = CHU
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
add_core = JAI
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = JAI
remove_core = CHU
}



Soltaniyeh

1356.1.1 = {
revolt_risk = 4
add_core = CHU
}
1357.1.1 = {
owner = BLU
controller = BLU
}
1360.1.1 = {
owner = JAI
controller = JAI
add_core = JAI
}
1375.1.1 = {
owner = QAR
controller = QAR
add_core = QAR
remove_core = JAI
remove_core = CHU
}

Now lets look over Ak-Koyunlu!

I did not found out much, wikipedia says at one point their history begins in 1378, then they beat the Eretnids in 1352 and got land around 1402, so i would just let them like they are.
Maybe they should be vassals of Jalayrids since 1360 and not part of their territory, and become vassals of Qara Koyunlu in 1410, but be free since 1393.
Van and Mus should also be Armenian under Georgian or Armenian, Kurdish under Kurdish, Persian or Azerbaijan Rule, Mus should be Turkish under Turkish Rule.

I think that was it for now !

[Semi-Lobster]

Kars for sure should belong to Georgia along with Herethi (which should also be Georgian culture) but after checking the references for the maps, at the game start of 1356 Yerevan/Hayastan was lost to Georgia in 1236 and Syunik and Aran being controlled to the Ilkhanate even longer ago. Also indeed Georgia had long been the masters of the Shirvanshahs (the vassalage ended 1243) but I don't see how that justifies cores for provinces Georgia never actually controlled from a vassal from over a hundred years earlier

[Clonefusion]

Kars for sure should belong to Georgia along with Herethi (which should also be Georgian culture) but after checking the references for the maps, at the game start of 1356 Yerevan/Hayastan was lost to Georgia in 1236 and Syunik and Aran being controlled to the Ilkhanate even longer ago. Also indeed Georgia had long been the masters of the Shirvanshahs (the vassalage ended 1243) but I don't see how that justifies cores for provinces Georgia never actually controlled from a vassal from over a hundred years earlier

Yerevan/Hayastan was recaptured by George V of Georgia, as well as Syunik and Aran, he also made Shirvan a vassal of Georgia again, look here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V_of_Georgia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ge...g_George_V.jpg

[Semi-Lobster]

Yerevan/Hayastan was recaptured by George V of Georgia, as well as Syunik and Aran, he also made Shirvan a vassal of Georgia again, look here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V_of_Georgia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ge...g_George_V.jpg

Ah, my terrible German once again causes problems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg

I misread the map and though it was 'a map of 1380' and instead it was a map of 'the end of the 1380's' which means that it takes place before Timur's invasions of Georgia in 1386. You are very much right about the Georgian control of Armenia.

I really need to work on my German, sorry

[Clonefusion]

Ah, my terrible German once again causes problems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...map_de_alt.svg

I misread the map and though it was 'a map of 1380' and instead it was a map of 'the end of the 1380's' which means that it takes place before Timur's invasions of Georgia in 1386. You are very much right about the Georgian control of Armenia.

I really need to work on my German, sorry

U can answer me with german, i am german and so its not a problem, but np.

[gigau]

Thanks for the historical data

U can answer me with german, i am german and so its not a problem, but np.

Just remember to either do it by private message, or at the very least in bilingual

[Clonefusion]

Thanks for the historical data




Just remember to either do it by private message, or at the very least in bilingual

I was last year for 1 year in the US, so that should be no problem

[gigau]

I was last year for 1 year in the US, so that should be no problem

What i meant is that, when i've, once or twice, posted in french here, i always put the text in italic, and added the english translation. Wasn't implying your english was not good enough or anything stupid like that