Rebirth of the Forgotten Continent

Senator Othollo, I shall stand as candidate in the next election. Since a majority of the Mercatores supported my accession to the leadership, I expect that they shall now have no qualms in supporting our campaign for the Office of Imperator. It is essential to have unity in this matter, so that the party may provide a united front and revenge our loss in the last election. Of course, any other party member may step forward and offer their candidacy. I have no issue with internal opposition, provided that the party rallies behind the eventual victor. Since we share an identical outlook on the current legislative agenda, I pray that we may come together for the sake of the party and the people.

As for the election itself, the problem, Senator Voralius, is that the succession of Senator Desimodius to the post of Imperator was illegal and unconstitutional, as no existing law provides for imperial succession. Even when the Lex Taurica passes, as it inevitably must do, it would not retroactively legitimise the usurpation of the Imperial Office following the death of Graetius Tauronian. As such, an election is necessary in order to provide for legitimate leadership in the Republic. The alternative would be four years of leaderless anarchy. We must have fresh elections to restore stability to the Republic.

- Caesennia Caprica

Syriana said:

Senator Othollo, I shall stand as candidate in the next election. Since a majority of the Mercatores supported my accession to the leadership, I expect that they shall now have no qualms in supporting our campaign for the Office of Imperator. It is essential to have unity in this matter, so that the party may provide a united front and revenge our loss in the last election. Of course, any other party member may step forward and offer their candidacy. I have no issue with internal opposition, provided that the party rallies behind the eventual victor. Since we share an identical outlook on the current legislative agenda, I pray that we may come together for the sake of the party and the people.

As for the election itself, the problem, Senator Voralius, is that the succession of Senator Desimodius to the post of Imperator was illegal and unconstitutional, as no existing law provides for imperial succession. Even when the Lex Taurica passes, as it inevitably must do, it would not retroactively legitimise the usurpation of the Imperial Office following the death of Graetius Tauronian. As such, an election is necessary in order to provide for legitimate leadership in the Republic. The alternative would be four years of leaderless anarchy. We must have fresh elections to restore stability to the Republic.

- Caesennia Caprica

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Marvelous, I will be backing you of course. Greatius showed we cannot trust these populists in charge of the republic, they are reckless, prone to delusions of grandeur and at the worst threaten this House with violence.
The nation needs a Mercator Imperator with a firm hand and warm heart.

((Here's a tally of how the votes stand: [Yes-No(Abstain)]

Concerning the Powers Bill: 5-3(1)
Concerning the Lex Taurica: 9-0
Concerning the recognition of Graetius: 7-1(1)
Concerning the early election: 8-1

That means all bills are currently passing...))

I wish to remind the house that all are welcome to join Unio Libertatis, all that you need to do is notify our Agens Praetor. ((And that there are more parties than just the Populares and Mercators!))

I also wish to remind all members of Unio Libertatis that submissions for the post of Petitor are welcomed.

Concerning the powers bill: no
Concerning the Lex Taurica: yes
Concerning the recognition of Graetius: yes
Concerning the early election: no

While I voted 'yes' on the Lex Taurica, I am concerned that it does not specify the term of a candidate elected during a 'snap election'. I move that the term of the new candidate should be limited to the remainder of the term for the previous candidate, pending the passing of that motion, as seems likely. (( sorry if this was already assumed... it is a law, we should be precise! )). I fear that allowing an automatic replacement, who may not be voted into office, a full term undermines our democratic ethos (( I'm also worried about confusing changing the election years... I don't think it will happen that often which should make the opposite problem, too many elections, relatively small )).

Terms Bill said:

Should the Imperator die, fall ill, or be otherwise incapacitated, the replacement specified in the Lex Taurica shall serve only the remainder of the term of the original Imperator, not a full 8 years

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.

Now I turn to the Powers Bill. I, too, am concerned about the potential of the Imperator's ability to dissolve the senate. While I understand that it can be used to ensure that democracy runs smoothly, it can also be used to prevent action during a crisis. The potential political abuse of this power is too much for me to accept, and therefore I must vote against the bill. I call for all senators with an eye to the future to do the same. We do not necessarily know the kinds of people we will elect to Imperator, and we must ensure that there is as little room for abuse as possible.

I also object to section 1iv. The Imerpator should be exempt from minor prosecutions during his term in office, but should be held responsible for all actions upon the completion of the term. (( This shouldn't have any effect in game, I just imaging petty thefting imperators all over the place using their immunity as a shield. anyway it is something to which my character objects. also, how is this dealt with in game? we only have one person who claims to be a high judge. do we assume we get their approval? or is this a new body we need to create specifically for the judiciary section of this bill? ))

Finally, I want to say that I am glad to see Graetius' funeral is passing so splendidly. The thought of denying a man who served our country such honors and rites before the gods horrifies me.

quicksabre said:

Finally, I want to say that I am glad to see Graetius' funeral is passing so splendidly. The thought of denying a man who served our country such honors and rites before the gods horrifies me.

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Graetius was not a man we should honour. He was an ego driven megalomaniac and recklessly threw his life away in a simple skirmish as well as many of the lives of his troopers. He threatened to return from his campaign and purge Atlantis of the very Party we are both members of.
the first ruler since the Oligarchy was a petty tyrant who fortunately died too soon to have time to implement his tyrannical designs.
The thought of honouring this man horrifies me

robb1993 said:

Graetius was not a man we should honour. He was an ego driven megalomaniac and recklessly threw his life away in a simple skirmish as well as many of the lives of his troopers. He threatened to return from his campaign and purge Atlantis of the very Party we are both members of.
the first ruler since the Oligarchy was a petty tyrant who fortunately died too soon to have time to implement his tyrannical designs.
The thought of honouring this man horrifies me

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Senator Othollo, we have no evidence of your claims. There are conflicting reports from the front and we cannot know his 'designs' now that he is dead. If you would like to try him posthumously bring your case before the senate. Until you can establish your claims Graetius was simply our Imperator who died at the front. As such he deserves state honors. This motion should not even be on the table right now, it should be a given.

robb1993 said:

Graetius was not a man we should honour. He was an ego driven megalomaniac and recklessly threw his life away in a simple skirmish as well as many of the lives of his troopers. He threatened to return from his campaign and purge Atlantis of the very Party we are both members of.
the first ruler since the Oligarchy was a petty tyrant who fortunately died too soon to have time to implement his tyrannical designs.
The thought of honouring this man horrifies me

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"Unless you have evidence of this it is best not to go throwing these claims about unless you can undeniably back them up. Graetius died for this Republic, so the best you can do is honour his sacrifice and not attempt to tarnish his name. Now, if you have evidence then feel free to bring this up here within the Senate. There are so many conflicting reports of what actually happened at the battle or prior to the battle it is almost impossible to discern what truly happened. He may have been assassinated. May have died charging in foolishly. For all we know, he may have planned to sacrifice himself as it may have been his only option in the situation that would lead to a victory. We just do not know, and can not jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

Now, this accusation that he threatened to purge your party is a very remarkable accusation to throw. If this was even true, it would make him look bad, but it would also make your party look bad considering the rumours concerning assassination."-Auron Desimodius

Name: Alamander Urenahin (M)
Date of Birth: November 15, 1337 ((22 as of entry to the game))
Culture: Ethnic Arran
Patron deity: Ithuri
Advisor Type: Statesman

The third son of prominent Amaean lumber mill owner Olhas Urenahin III, Alamander was the black sheep of the family. He didn't have the financial acumen of Olhas the Fourth nor did he have the physical prowess of the middle brother. It was going to be a life in the priesthood until news came the Atlantean Congress was to be reinstated. From that day on Alamander would be trained in the arts of oration, negotiation, and general diplomacy in the hopes that the family could claim a senator amongst its numbers. Friends of his family raised him in Azlant City and tried to shelter him from harm during the unrest that followed Toxom the Great's passing but a mob of looters broke into their villa and Alamander's left hand was crippled in the commotion.
His entry into the Senate is almost as improbable as the rise of Azlanxo's Republic. His father heard of the riches of the barbarian provinces to the west which were being targeted for annexation and concocted a scheme to get a large slice. He arranged to buy the debts of soldiers and offered to forgive the debts and give them extra cash in exchange for their settlement entitlements. He then conspired with officials to have those soldiers given adjoining plots of land on top of one of the province's richest untapped gold deposits. It cost most of the family fortune to pull off but now the Urenahin family should be set for life, assuming nothing gets between them and the gold. Olhas used all his contacts and clout to arrange to have Alamander selected as the senator representing Atlantean citizens in Ordika province.
As for Alamander himself, he's a bit stunned by how fast it has all happened. The inexperienced but bright lad was expecting to serve one of the current senators for many years until building up his own reputation and fairly securing a seat in the Senate. Instead he's been thrust into a role he's not ready for without any firm convictions or beliefs as to how Azlanxo should be run. His only political objective, that is to say the only direct instruction he has from his father, is to ensure that his family's plans for the gold aren't ruined by government interference.

((I hope there's no problems with my backstory. I figure there has to be some corruption in a new system.))

((Sounds good))

Greetings Senator Unrenahin! I look forward to working with you in the future!

And, as this might be a good time to repeat this, I feel the need to say; join Unio Libertatis! The Liberators are the strongest choice for Atlantis, not only because we are the only way to have a compromise between the Populares and Mercators, but because of the strong leadership in the party, and our (overall) moderate views on policy!

quicksabre said:

Also, how is this dealt with in game? we only have one person who claims to be a high judge. do we assume we get their approval? or is this a new body we need to create specifically for the judiciary section of this bill?.

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((The Council of High Judges is a body that already exists (I invented it, though mainly to fill gap needed for Votes of No Confidence), and is composed of all six of the high judges, ie those who serve in the highest court, one of the Appellate Courts or courts of appeal, regardless of their field [something like Fraudx2(Governmental and external), Criminalx2, Civilx2(Company and Domestic)]. Until the bill concerning Votes of No Confidence the only power it had was to advise on sentencing. However much I would like it, I can't really have the power alone to decide whether a prosecution is valid on my own... Therefore, I propose that the other 5 judges be simulated by Mr C. (basically meaning he gets to say what goes and what doesn't), unless the posts are filled...))

Kaioo said:

"Unless you have evidence of this it is best not to go throwing these claims about unless you can undeniably back them up. Graetius died for this Republic, so the best you can do is honour his sacrifice and not attempt to tarnish his name. Now, if you have evidence then feel free to bring this up here within the Senate. There are so many conflicting reports of what actually happened at the battle or prior to the battle it is almost impossible to discern what truly happened. He may have been assassinated. May have died charging in foolishly. For all we know, he may have planned to sacrifice himself as it may have been his only option in the situation that would lead to a victory. We just do not know, and can not jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

Now, this accusation that he threatened to purge your party is a very remarkable accusation to throw. If this was even true, it would make him look bad, but it would also make your party look bad considering the rumours concerning assassination."-Auron Desimodius

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"How quick you are too forget, Senator, of how Graetius marched on the Curia with his army on its way to fight the barbarians and how he said for all to hear that when he came back he would kill the Mercators and all who agree with them! I also see that you have yet to drop your accusations of assassination, as well, despite the fact we have the account of the esteemed Legate to dissuade such claims."

As Solangus sits he notices a new face amongst the curia. He rises again to greet the new senator

"Greetings, Senator Alamander, I am Solangus Balvaksin of Brundyka. I know you are still young here, but I urge you to join the Mercators, do not believe the lies of the Populares, nor the promises of the Unio. The Mercators are honest men and women, and I know you are too."

Vulpis listened to Solangus' urging to Unrenahin to join the Mercators, then quickly rose to rebut the statement...

Remeber, Senator Solangus, that during these four years, the Populares and Mercators have been feuding one another, from Graetius' speech to the conspiring of several Senators to assassinate him... and while I would dare not say that either party is bad (as I agree with some sentiments of both parties), Unio Libertatis has been formed specifically to bridge that divide and keep Atlantis running properly.

Kaioo said:

"Unless you have evidence of this it is best not to go throwing these claims about unless you can undeniably back them up. Graetius died for this Republic, so the best you can do is honour his sacrifice and not attempt to tarnish his name. Now, if you have evidence then feel free to bring this up here within the Senate. There are so many conflicting reports of what actually happened at the battle or prior to the battle it is almost impossible to discern what truly happened. He may have been assassinated. May have died charging in foolishly. For all we know, he may have planned to sacrifice himself as it may have been his only option in the situation that would lead to a victory. We just do not know, and can not jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

Now, this accusation that he threatened to purge your party is a very remarkable accusation to throw. If this was even true, it would make him look bad, but it would also make your party look bad considering the rumours concerning assassination."-Auron Desimodius

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The reports of several soldiers have reached my ears. I am the Lion of the West and many of my kinsmen fought in the skirmish he died. I have reports that he charged ahead alone, in search of glory and was surrounded and cut down along with most of his bodyguard.

And as has already been pointed out, he very publicly announced his plan to purge this city of the Mercators. You're arguments he died for this Republic are flawed, he died for his own glory and had he survived would have surely killed scores of the people you see in this room, including myself.

As for assassination, you ask me not to throw accusations yet then fling just as many baseless claims.

Chlorna said:

"How quick you are too forget, Senator, of how Graetius marched on the Curia with his army on its way to fight the barbarians and how he said for all to hear that when he came back he would kill the Mercators and all who agree with them! I also see that you have yet to drop your accusations of assassination, as well, despite the fact we have the account of the esteemed Legate to dissuade such claims."

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I was also not a supporter of Graetius' actions following his election. However, I will ask that you bring official charges before the Senate or cease your libel against our former leader. I do not seek to silence the cries of the Mercators, merely to have them bring their grievances through official channels. If they do not wish to do so we should not set a precedent of dishonoring the unconvicted dead.

theAhawk said:

((The Council of High Judges is a body that already exists (I invented it, though mainly to fill gap needed for Votes of No Confidence), and is composed of all six of the high judges, ie those who serve in the highest court, one of the Appellate Courts or courts of appeal, regardless of their field [something like Fraudx2(Governmental and external), Criminalx2, Civilx2(Company and Domestic)]. Until the bill concerning Votes of No Confidence the only power it had was to advise on sentencing. However much I would like it, I can't really have the power alone to decide whether a prosecution is valid on my own... Therefore, I propose that the other 5 judges be simulated by Mr C. (basically meaning he gets to say what goes and what doesn't), unless the posts are filled...))

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(( Makes sense, thanks. I second your proposal that Mr C makes the decisions for the High Judges. If we get enough active players we can try to set up a Council of Judges, though, with official powers, selection criteria, etc. It would be fun. ))

Othollo, notices the newcomer Alamander Urenahin and urgently beckons his servant.

"Send wine and this message to the new boy over there"

"Yes sire."

I am a friend of your fathers, you will probably not remember me, it has been years since we last spoke. I hope to see you have a great career here, if you should need a friend, you need only ask.

Senator Othollo
Mercator and Lion of the West

I have no opposition to hosting a tribute to Graetius Tauronian. But just because the man is dead does not mean that we may wipe the blemishes from his record, simply because they are politically inconvenient for his successor. The fact is that he demeaned the Curia in the eyes of the people, intimidated the Senators of this house with a brutish display of armed force, and implied that he would purge the Republic of his opponents upon his return to the city. These acts were witnessed by all and sundry; they are a matter of public memory.

Welcome to this august body, Senator Urenahin. I see you come from a robust family of entrepreneurs. I would dare say, then, that you would fit in perfectly with the Mercatores. We are a party dedicated to upholding the essential right to succeed on our own merits, without hindrance from the State or the mob. We represent the merchantmen of all class and creed, from the lowliest stall-holder to the highest financier. We would engineer a new republic, where power is invested firmly in the hands of the people, unnecessary bureaucracy is banished from all our institutions, and the Imperator is held accountable by the Curia.

If you aspire to such ideals, we would gladly have you with us.

- Caesennia Caprica

((I'm afraid that I've been called away due to work and will be leaving the country on Thursday to go to Asia for a fortnight. I'm unsure of what my internet access will be like as I'm moving around a lot. Unless the election is able to be delayed, I probably won't be able to participate, and would have to withdraw my candidacy.))

Greetings, Senator Urenahin. Unfortunately, when we met earlier I was too busy to introduce myself, but now I wish to make amends and welcome you to the senate; a house I am sure you will make your own in the coming years.

I also wish to invite you to join Unio Libertatis. We are a union of like-minded people who wish to bring unity to the republic. We hope to bring stability, justice and freedom over the coming years, through maintaining and expanding both social and economic liberties, and I hope you can be a part of that.

I also wish to remind members of the Union that applications for the post of Petitor are still being accepted. So far we have had a grand total of... one, so all applications are welcomed. The deadline, of tomorrow, is fast approaching, so don't delay. I hope this election will be able to show the other factions that only a democratic party can work in a democratic country and that our openness and transparency can be a shining light the others will be forced to follow.

((I think we will have the Petitor election once Mr C has finished this lot of votes, to avoid confusion... I hope that won't muck up your schedule too much...[but then we only have one candidate, so no need for voting at this point!]))

((Yeah, I think we'll hold our election on Saturday/Sunday/Monday... are we going to hold it here, on thread, or are we going to have a meeting/convention?))

((We are a transparent organisation, so it will be here, I assume... at the very least the candidate for whom each person voted for must be made clear, so it would be logical to do it in thread, unless you have any better ideas...))