Originally Posted by Zolotaya
Indeed, you and MMtg team definitely have deserved at least some compliment. And I much rather prefer your approach to historical plausibility and precision to the one of Making History, even though they also have done quite a good job.
They had nothing to lose.. And everything to win.
From reading the OP, I'd say it is the closest thing "legalese" will ever come to saying "it's dead".
I hope that it isn't, but at the same time I do understand PI in this. I hope that it can be worked out, but at the same time I'd rather have no release than another HoI3 release. I will say, however, that several of the things the MM team have said, in the light of this and other discussions, now seem dubious to me. The video ubik made did not really sound good either (Especially not in the light of these events), so I am starting to worry about whether I misplaced my trust in the MMtG project.
I certainly hope not, but sadly it could seem so.
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Why don't we just these days have multiplayer as an option to deal with after the rest of the game has been released. I mean, unless the game is exclusively multiplayer, seems to me you would first want to learn the game mechanics before going out and playing MP. That way it can be patched in later but the game could still be released and the internal mechanics could be fully debugged. But what do I know, I'd rather play a solid AI most of the time if they make one.
I disagree. It's unprecedented for a publisher to announce that a game in development is in pretty bad shape. If they didn't then we'd just have more vague promises from the devs that the game is better and less buggy than it was a month before, even as it slips past its intended release by over six months.
It could be argued that it's bad form from a publisher to break ranks with the developer and spill the beans on how unpolished its game is, but that's a different discussion.
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This is very disappointing news. I'm still committed to buying this game when or if it is released, and despite the problems I don't see how an outright cancellation would be justified.
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Be a shame if the game got cancelled, a brief glance at the upcoming titles section and it's the only one I have any significant interest in. Paradox's publisher focus has largely shifted to Magickaesque DLC/ MP/ Steam locked titles in which I simply have zero interest.
There were people paying a lot more on kickstarter- for games that hadn't even entered development. If people want to put their wallet where their mouth is for a product that they really want then more power to them as far as I am concerned.[60 euro] for an unfinished buggy version of a game that was only going to sell for $20
Meh. Reading Mattias' post again is confusing.
I feel I would want to ask only 2 things now.
Could the parties involved please reconcile your ambiguous and almost mutually exclusive statements? A joint clarification statement would've been great. (Or a confirmation by PI that MP is indeed the one major trouble, while the rest is indeed likely to be largely dealt with by a day 1 patch.)
And, naturally, announce the resolution as soon as possible.
The anguish of uncertainty is extremely exhausting.
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To those saying "if it's just the MP, cut the MP" or "50 years without a crash is quite alright", let me add something here:
From what the devs have written before, this game is tested, at most, on about 30 different PC configurations. Some of these have only seen an old state of the game being tested. And still, there seem to be game-breaking (i.e. normal gameplay CTDs) bugs on this very small sample of systems. From having worked at a dev studio I can assure you: even most games that work brilliantly on the small pool of test systems will cause problems on at least 10% of the end users' systems. Now imagine what that means for a game that is still extremely buggy even on test machines.
Secondly, we do not have any confirmation that it is "just the MP". The devs have said that it is "mainly MP", but Paradox seems to disagree with this assessment. Cutting the MP won't do any good if that area is not where the problems Paradox cares about lie.
I sympathise with Paradox, even though I would really like to see this released. They are in a PR minefield here and I appreciate the update on the state of affairs.
Does anyone remember the CK development process? If I recall correctly, that was the last time a cooperation between Paradox and an external developer went awry, no?
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Out of curiosity, where can I get a summary of this?
I have been a loyal mmtm player from very early on. It has given me years of enjoyment and for that I am very thankful. I have been thus far happy to stay out of the way and let the team create. Now, however, it seems clear paradox is taking the community's temperature to help decide what to do with mmtg. It seems crucial to speak up now and be heard lest it be taken out and shot behind the chemical sheds. Please, don't let this game die. Thank you.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...er-Kings-games!
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...light=snowball
seems the best thread on it
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As much as I was expecting Magna Mundi, I agree with the people that this is the closest thing to "it's dead" a PR person from Paradox could get without explicitly saying so. The odds of this game being released are looking grim indeed.
The way that Ubik has been hinting stuff from the last few months shows pretty clearly, IMO, that there's a major rift between PI and the developers, perhaps even on a personal level. I would guess both parties are somewhat to blame, but it's hard to say from the outside.
It does seem pretty clear that UV has grasped more then it could handle. The VERY small number of testers is worrisome. I don't understand how a game that initially had 20 testers (itself a small number) could whittle down to 3 and nothing drastic was done about that WAY before this point. It would seem that the team mostly focused on designing features and skimped a lot on execution (which includes testing to validate that what you're doing works as intended). The design of the game itself is amazing. I've read everything written in the forums, the whole manual, etc, and if a game with those features were released, I'm pretty sure it would indeed revolutionize the genre. The main issue here is: is the game capable on delivering it's stated design? If yes, and the technical issues are mainly "polish" at this point, I can agree with the developers that there's a unresonable attitude by Paradox about the game, but OTOH, I think Paradox is seriously wondering if the developers can deliver on it's intended design, at all. The conflicting reports by PI and UV about the game simply make it impossible for us on the outside to say for sure who's right.
The issues with stability actually worry me less then the balance. If the game is not stable and the team doesn't have the manpower/hours to hunt down and fix those bugs, I wonder how much fine tuning they managed to do on the critical balance issues. I could live with having to reload the game every 50 years or so, but isn't this a sign that the game will have serious balance issues? And those, to me, are in the end more serious. Having to reload is a nuisance. Playing a game with broken mechanics due to balance issues is simply too frustranting to contemplate.
I hope it gets released in some form, anyhow, even without MP, provided it doesn't have serious engine issues. Everything else can be solved later by patches or the community, if needed. It's not the release the fans wished, I think, because a lot of people were expecting a LOT from the game, myself included, which looking back was probably a bad idea (falling to the hype of a as-yet untested developer). Not saying that incompetency is the root of the issues. Apparently MMtG received minimal funding and had to rely on part-time developers, but the fact remains that we were expecting A LOT of this game based on published design notes by Ubik and company.
I have personally run countless games (most hands-off) far beyond that time frame.
Mourning Magna Mundi
Thank you for the qualification. It is none of my business to address any of the assumptions you made in your OP, but I can tell you that few of these assumptions are accurate.
Mourning Magna Mundi
I can imagine how this would be confusing, but must leave it to others fully to address this.
I can, however, assure you that everyone working on this game intends on finishing it, and on making it fully functional and polished!
Mourning Magna Mundi
Having read this far in the thread, I am relieved to see that the conversation has not deteriorated into two camps, where one says
"If a developer overreaches, the publisher will punish him,"
while the other argues that
"Ubik has been FRAMED!"
Because this would be a false dichotomy.
I share your optimism that the parties will come to an agreement that is mutually acceptable.
Mourning Magna Mundi
The numbers of testers I was referencing were the internal alpha testers exclusively designed to spend 8+ hours a day testing the builds and then later having an open beta program which was nixed by Paradox directly. Paradox then instituted their own beta which is another story entirely.
I wouldn't mind seeing this 'list' of problems that Paradox has. That way we can all see the problems of the game for ourselves. Hope to hear something from paradox soon. Big thanks to the development team for trying to answer the many questions many of the fans have.
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No. Moreover, for MM, all of the developers were working part-time. For next to no money.
Mourning Magna Mundi
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