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Thread: The sad state of affairs

  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Zolotaya View Post
    I wanted to thank you for this compliment. I would be personally honored to know that something I have put time and effort into was being used in classrooms.

    Making History series is a good independent series, and having spoken with Chris over there, I can tell you their team is very dedicated to making such titles as well. Chris is a developer that has influenced my own approach on things, and so to be mentioned with his titles is a compliment.
    Indeed, you and MMtg team definitely have deserved at least some compliment. And I much rather prefer your approach to historical plausibility and precision to the one of Making History, even though they also have done quite a good job.
    They had nothing to lose.. And everything to win.

  2. #362
    Nawt Funni :( Esben_DRK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinkyskating View Post
    ok they told us the game is a sad state, but nothing else. I would like to know if the game is cancelled or not?
    From reading the OP, I'd say it is the closest thing "legalese" will ever come to saying "it's dead".
    I hope that it isn't, but at the same time I do understand PI in this. I hope that it can be worked out, but at the same time I'd rather have no release than another HoI3 release. I will say, however, that several of the things the MM team have said, in the light of this and other discussions, now seem dubious to me. The video ubik made did not really sound good either (Especially not in the light of these events), so I am starting to worry about whether I misplaced my trust in the MMtG project.
    I certainly hope not, but sadly it could seem so.
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  3. #363
    Why don't we just these days have multiplayer as an option to deal with after the rest of the game has been released. I mean, unless the game is exclusively multiplayer, seems to me you would first want to learn the game mechanics before going out and playing MP. That way it can be patched in later but the game could still be released and the internal mechanics could be fully debugged. But what do I know, I'd rather play a solid AI most of the time if they make one.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by eueueu View Post
    2nd - Considering this is the official Paradox forum and the official Magna Mundi section, I find it at least a little weird that
    we get so little information from both developer and publisher (but especially the latter). I'd say that's bad PR.
    I disagree. It's unprecedented for a publisher to announce that a game in development is in pretty bad shape. If they didn't then we'd just have more vague promises from the devs that the game is better and less buggy than it was a month before, even as it slips past its intended release by over six months.

    It could be argued that it's bad form from a publisher to break ranks with the developer and spill the beans on how unpolished its game is, but that's a different discussion.
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  5. #365
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    This is very disappointing news. I'm still committed to buying this game when or if it is released, and despite the problems I don't see how an outright cancellation would be justified.
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  6. #366
    Be a shame if the game got cancelled, a brief glance at the upcoming titles section and it's the only one I have any significant interest in. Paradox's publisher focus has largely shifted to Magickaesque DLC/ MP/ Steam locked titles in which I simply have zero interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    [60 euro] for an unfinished buggy version of a game that was only going to sell for $20
    There were people paying a lot more on kickstarter- for games that hadn't even entered development. If people want to put their wallet where their mouth is for a product that they really want then more power to them as far as I am concerned.

  7. #367
    Aὐτοκράτωρ Konstantinos XV's Avatar
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    Meh. Reading Mattias' post again is confusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattias Lilja View Post
    Its fate is looking grim.
    We failed the latest Release Candidate due to numerous crashes,
    and will deliver a more extensive list of bugs
    the sad fact is we see just as many crashes, bugs and imbalances as we did 6 months ago, some of them brand new and some of them old and well known.
    I feel I would want to ask only 2 things now.
    Could the parties involved please reconcile your ambiguous and almost mutually exclusive statements? A joint clarification statement would've been great. (Or a confirmation by PI that MP is indeed the one major trouble, while the rest is indeed likely to be largely dealt with by a day 1 patch.)
    And, naturally, announce the resolution as soon as possible.
    The anguish of uncertainty is extremely exhausting.
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  8. #368
    Not really a fascist brony monsterfurby's Avatar
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    To those saying "if it's just the MP, cut the MP" or "50 years without a crash is quite alright", let me add something here:

    From what the devs have written before, this game is tested, at most, on about 30 different PC configurations. Some of these have only seen an old state of the game being tested. And still, there seem to be game-breaking (i.e. normal gameplay CTDs) bugs on this very small sample of systems. From having worked at a dev studio I can assure you: even most games that work brilliantly on the small pool of test systems will cause problems on at least 10% of the end users' systems. Now imagine what that means for a game that is still extremely buggy even on test machines.

    Secondly, we do not have any confirmation that it is "just the MP". The devs have said that it is "mainly MP", but Paradox seems to disagree with this assessment. Cutting the MP won't do any good if that area is not where the problems Paradox cares about lie.

    I sympathise with Paradox, even though I would really like to see this released. They are in a PR minefield here and I appreciate the update on the state of affairs.

    Does anyone remember the CK development process? If I recall correctly, that was the last time a cooperation between Paradox and an external developer went awry, no?
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  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterfurby View Post
    Does anyone remember the CK development process? If I recall correctly, that was the last time a cooperation between Paradox and an external developer went awry, no?
    Out of curiosity, where can I get a summary of this?

  10. #370
    I have been a loyal mmtm player from very early on. It has given me years of enjoyment and for that I am very thankful. I have been thus far happy to stay out of the way and let the team create. Now, however, it seems clear paradox is taking the community's temperature to help decide what to do with mmtg. It seems crucial to speak up now and be heard lest it be taken out and shot behind the chemical sheds. Please, don't let this game die. Thank you.

  11. #371
    Mwahahahahaha s1234567890m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ywhtptgtfo View Post
    Out of curiosity, where can I get a summary of this?
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...er-Kings-games!
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...light=snowball

    seems the best thread on it
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  12. #372
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    As much as I was expecting Magna Mundi, I agree with the people that this is the closest thing to "it's dead" a PR person from Paradox could get without explicitly saying so. The odds of this game being released are looking grim indeed.

    The way that Ubik has been hinting stuff from the last few months shows pretty clearly, IMO, that there's a major rift between PI and the developers, perhaps even on a personal level. I would guess both parties are somewhat to blame, but it's hard to say from the outside.

    It does seem pretty clear that UV has grasped more then it could handle. The VERY small number of testers is worrisome. I don't understand how a game that initially had 20 testers (itself a small number) could whittle down to 3 and nothing drastic was done about that WAY before this point. It would seem that the team mostly focused on designing features and skimped a lot on execution (which includes testing to validate that what you're doing works as intended). The design of the game itself is amazing. I've read everything written in the forums, the whole manual, etc, and if a game with those features were released, I'm pretty sure it would indeed revolutionize the genre. The main issue here is: is the game capable on delivering it's stated design? If yes, and the technical issues are mainly "polish" at this point, I can agree with the developers that there's a unresonable attitude by Paradox about the game, but OTOH, I think Paradox is seriously wondering if the developers can deliver on it's intended design, at all. The conflicting reports by PI and UV about the game simply make it impossible for us on the outside to say for sure who's right.

    The issues with stability actually worry me less then the balance. If the game is not stable and the team doesn't have the manpower/hours to hunt down and fix those bugs, I wonder how much fine tuning they managed to do on the critical balance issues. I could live with having to reload the game every 50 years or so, but isn't this a sign that the game will have serious balance issues? And those, to me, are in the end more serious. Having to reload is a nuisance. Playing a game with broken mechanics due to balance issues is simply too frustranting to contemplate.

    I hope it gets released in some form, anyhow, even without MP, provided it doesn't have serious engine issues. Everything else can be solved later by patches or the community, if needed. It's not the release the fans wished, I think, because a lot of people were expecting a LOT from the game, myself included, which looking back was probably a bad idea (falling to the hype of a as-yet untested developer). Not saying that incompetency is the root of the issues. Apparently MMtG received minimal funding and had to rely on part-time developers, but the fact remains that we were expecting A LOT of this game based on published design notes by Ubik and company.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by HolisticGod View Post
    k_merse,

    Right, but understand that this is the most discouraging information in the thread.

    You've only done 50 year tests? Even hands off tests? How could you possibly call something a "release candidate" without knowing what happens after the first fifty years?
    I have personally run countless games (most hands-off) far beyond that time frame.
    Mourning Magna Mundi

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
    Mind you, I don't work or had any experience in marketing or publishing or somesuch. So take everything I'm saying with a pinch of salt.
    Thank you for the qualification. It is none of my business to address any of the assumptions you made in your OP, but I can tell you that few of these assumptions are accurate.
    Mourning Magna Mundi

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete0714 View Post
    What confuses me so much is that I thought this game was in the bag as being released soon. I mean, the developers were making it sound like they were so close to being finished, releasing a manual and gameplay trailers (although they were clearly working with a WIP game in those). I don't blame Paradox for this, like some do, I actually wonder why the devs haven't been more forthcoming with their problems. I was looking forward to playing, especially since is sounded like it was actually going to be a game I could physically purchase (although perhaps that DVD format was a misleading statement too, I don't know.) I really wish people would move forward with presenting a game as one that is going to be for sale only if they intend on finishing it. otherwise don't present it at all. Ugh, frustrating.
    I can imagine how this would be confusing, but must leave it to others fully to address this.

    I can, however, assure you that everyone working on this game intends on finishing it, and on making it fully functional and polished!
    Mourning Magna Mundi

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by monsterfurby View Post
    What I find quite atrocious is the fact that apparently, we have the developer and the publisher giving conflicting parallel accounts on the state of development IN THE SAME THREAD. Professional this is not. This does not hint at a good state of communication between Paradox and the MM devs either.

    With announcements like this, it's probably not about bugs alone, but about communication and something having gone wrong in the cooperation between the two teams. I hope that PI and the devs can overcome their differences and release this in an economically feasible fashion.
    Having read this far in the thread, I am relieved to see that the conversation has not deteriorated into two camps, where one says

    "If a developer overreaches, the publisher will punish him,"

    while the other argues that

    "Ubik has been FRAMED!"


    Because this would be a false dichotomy.

    I share your optimism that the parties will come to an agreement that is mutually acceptable.
    Mourning Magna Mundi

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by SAS View Post
    Only around 20 beta testers since 2009? That alone will guarentee lots of bugs. Why did they not open it up for more?
    The numbers of testers I was referencing were the internal alpha testers exclusively designed to spend 8+ hours a day testing the builds and then later having an open beta program which was nixed by Paradox directly. Paradox then instituted their own beta which is another story entirely.

  18. #378
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind seeing this 'list' of problems that Paradox has. That way we can all see the problems of the game for ourselves. Hope to hear something from paradox soon. Big thanks to the development team for trying to answer the many questions many of the fans have.
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  19. #379
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    I have checked this forum every day for the last two years, since the game was announced. It was too good to be true... I hope a solution works out.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Giant View Post
    It it normal to have a large portion of a development team working part-time?
    No. Moreover, for MM, all of the developers were working part-time. For next to no money.
    Mourning Magna Mundi

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