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Thread: Where were the coats of arms displayed?

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    Field Marshal Destraex's Avatar
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    Where were the coats of arms displayed?

    I know that short tunics were worn to display arms during this period, but not by everybody and I would have thought more common in the early Wars of the Roses.

    However in game it seems that arms will be painted directly onto the armour. Which looks great.
    Just as my question about armour being blackened, How common was painting arms onto plate?

    I also would expect some horses to wear housing which could show arms.
    I also know that foot soldiers did not display arms. But a lot of the time wore badges and colours seperate to the lords arms.
    but still denoting that they were that lords troops.

    I have a list of these at home that I may throw onto this post later.

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    I know that they had their coat of arms on standards atleast.
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  3. #3
    Field Marshal Destraex's Avatar
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    From what I have seen Free FLowing tabbard, tabbard. But I have never seen arms painted on armour in this period.



  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant Orkfaeller's Avatar
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    The guy in the moddle looks like he is wearing an american football shirt or something like
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  5. #5
    Field Marshal Destraex's Avatar
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    I rather think the american footballer is wearing a wars of the roses shirt!

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    Field Marshal Destraex's Avatar
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    BTW I think the more colourfull atire for knights at least was in the earlier part of the wars of the roses.

  7. #7
    tbh i'd say it would be "Where ever you could afford/wanted it to be" ... it depends how well known you wanted to be or how important you were, if you were 1 knight in a sort of retinue it would probably be quite insignificant compared to a Lord or Duke who would probably have a standard bearer as well as several men showing off his coat of arms.

    There are quite a few factors to take in.

  8. #8
    It would be nice to have some customisable capes for knights
    E.g: http://www.awise.org/files/productsi...BS_C/32555.jpg
    Like the red one that the guys is wearning... don't know if the correct word is "cape". But it would be cool to have some and that you could customize it to be more unique.

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Destraex's Avatar
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    Were capes in use at the time on the battlefield? I thought they would get in the way during combat.
    Personally and no offence I think capes look a bit well, silly, when worn like the one in that example. Perhaps its just the gent in the pic rather than the cape.
    Last edited by Destraex; 19-06-2012 at 05:50.

  10. #10


    From their facebook page

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    Field Marshal Destraex's Avatar
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    Oh I see. You think they all painted their coats of arms on the plate armour directly?

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    I'd imagine there were no capes worn into battle but I could be wrong. I just can't see giving the enemy something that solid of a handhold. It's the same reason I think guys with giant gauges are stupid, the first scuffle they get into they are going to be missing an ear!

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    armor(middle) - shield
    Thats the only known displayed objects
    regards NIN3

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  15. #15
    All the pictures ive seen depicting this conflict shows masses of men fully clad in armour. Was plate armour set so cheap during those times that the lords could afford to clad their entire army in it? Or were the lords just filthy rich? Or is it as i suspect, that the artists doesnt give a rats ass about the common footsoldiers with their dirty jerkins and bent spears....

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    Soldiers would likely wear badges, nothing more, if that.
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    Field Marshal Destraex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neecap View Post
    All the pictures ive seen depicting this conflict shows masses of men fully clad in armour. Was plate armour set so cheap during those times that the lords could afford to clad their entire army in it? Or were the lords just filthy rich? Or is it as i suspect, that the artists doesnt give a rats ass about the common footsoldiers with their dirty jerkins and bent spears....
    The answer is that armies of the period were mainly professional and relatively small. They could afford good plate and equipped their men well.
    This era is the height of plate and it was very common. Just as common as mail in previous centuries was... but you do not complain about say the normans mostly wearing maille?

    During this era most soldiers, even lowly ones would have had at least some plate armour. Even foot soldiers were likely to own a good helmet and at least half a breast plate. Also Lords did equip and furnish their men well during this period.

    I expect:
    Knights, squires and men at arms to be fully armoured
    Foot soldiers retinues, household troops to have at least half plate unless they are poorer irish or scottish
    Militia to have at least a padded jerkin and good helmet if not some plate.
    Archers - to own a good helmet and even some plate

    In this era the soldiers were professional and even the militia was well equipped. Some older armour existed from the hundred years war and most soldiers had fought previously.

    Most lords had their men wear their own colours (but not their arms) and badges. You would see large groups of men uniformed, while knights had their own individual colours (coats of arms).
    Last edited by Destraex; 29-06-2012 at 12:23.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Neecap View Post
    All the pictures ive seen depicting this conflict shows masses of men fully clad in armour. Was plate armour set so cheap during those times that the lords could afford to clad their entire army in it? Or were the lords just filthy rich? Or is it as i suspect, that the artists doesnt give a rats ass about the common footsoldiers with their dirty jerkins and bent spears....
    To second Destraex's comments:

    Plate armour was cheap, relatively speaking.
    money at that time, was Pounds, Shillings and Pence, or £/s/d. You got 20 shillings to the pound, and 12 pence to the shilling.
    The average-paid footsoldier would be paid about 6 pence a day - almost double the pay of an unskilled labourer. a man-at-arms might expect 18 pence ( 1s/6d ) per day.

    a simple, average sword would generally cost about 1 shilling, though a rusty and battered old-fashioned one that your grandfather fought with in france is probably worth one penny. A polearm like a billhook, pretty much the same sort of cost.


    You tend to think of armour as the amazing harnesses of fully-articulated plate, but the reality is that 90% of plate armour was bog-standard issued kit, called munitions harnesses, and these were being churned out by the thousands from the foundries of Nurnburg and Augsburg in germany, Ghent and Bruges in Burgundy, and particularly, from the city-states of Milan and Brescia in Italy. ( Forget what you might think of a lone guy with a hammer, making a breastplate, these were mass-production factories, and they were a production line. 400 years before Henry Ford created a mechanical production line, it was being donein italy. the only difference is, instead of a conveyor belt, it would be the apprentice boy, who transported the half-made peices of armour from one worker to the next. Companies like the Missaglias of Milan were vast arms production companies, the Colts, Lockheeds, or Heckler-Koch of their age. The Missaglias, for instance not only made the armour, they owned the mines and the coppiced forests that produced charcoal for smelting iron, they owned distribution ships, at one point in the late 15th C, the eldest son of the family used some of the vast profits to buy himself a castle, the lands surrounding it, and a noble title.)

    A munition harness, from one of these sources, in england, consisting of a breast and back, and either a mailshirt or arms - pretty much equivalent of the medium armours we've seen in-game footage, would cost you about 12 shillings - a months' pay for a basic footsoldier, 2 weeks or less for a man at arms.

    A high-quality sallet helmet imported from Ghent would set you back about 6s/4d - or a weeks' wages for a man-at-arms. But an old-fashioned knight's bascinet, as favoured by your grandfather at agincourt will likely be valued around 3 shillings and sixpence - affordable to even a footsoldier in a week or two's work.

    Now, on top of that, you have a system called "Livery and Maintainance" - a lord would have you wear his colours - his livery. you therefore were one of his soldiers, and you fought for him, followed his sergeants' orders, and so on. in return, you got your pay for food, and you were given equipment - you were maintained by the lord - the maintainance part. And so, your lord would purchase munitions harnesses by the score, or by the hundred, or perhaps even by the thousand, for his soldiers.

    And that's why you had so many soldiers armoured. because you've got longbowmen by the dozen on each side, actually turning up with a bunch of peasants would've been suicidal, they peasants would've been cut down by arrows, if they werent, they'd be cut down by swords in seconds. More importantly, if you took the peasants to war, you had no-one working the farms and fields... so you'd have starved the next season. Which is why you ended up, as Destraex has said, with professional, small armies.


    its one of the real failings of history that most of the armour that survives is the amazing beautiful stuff, because it was amazing and beautiful. Think of it as being like cars. you're going to treasure that ferrari or bugatti, and it'll still be in perfect condition years later. but no-one really keeps the Fiats or VW Beetles which most people drive in erfect showroom condition - they get used, they wear out, and they get scrapped. Same thing happened with armour.
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    The only things that really worried me were the fechtbuch. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of a history binge, and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon."

  19. #19
    Infamy: 39/30 Sn3ipen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Suzerain- View Post
    To second Destraex's comments:

    Plate armour was cheap, relatively speaking.
    money at that time, was Pounds, Shillings and Pence, or £/s/d. You got 20 shillings to the pound, and 12 pence to the shilling.
    The average-paid footsoldier would be paid about 6 pence a day - almost double the pay of an unskilled labourer. a man-at-arms might expect 18 pence ( 1s/6d ) per day.
    Thanks allot for this info. Really good to know.

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