Ridiculous Alliances
I've tried literally six games as Texas, and each time the USA ally with Mexico and I quickly perish. I gave up on that and started a game as Greece and the Ottomans ally themselves with the Russians three times so far. Did AHD change something about the alliance feature? Is there some mod for more realistic alliances?
The whole ottomans-allying-with-everyone thing is so annoying. I had to use the tag command to break their alliance in order to be able to survive as greece...
Can you tell me the tag command? Because I don't feel like I'm cheating at all doing that...
Press ~ and then type in tag + the tag of the nation you want to switch to (ottomans are TUR, it's gotta be in caps). After that, break the alliance and type tag GRE to switch back to Greece before unpausing, since the AI will immediately do a lot of really crappy stuff if left in control even for a second, and then IMMEDIATELY declare war, because if you don't, then they'll get their alliance going again and then you're effed. Keep in mind that you also can't really call any Great Powers to help you as Greece vs the ottomans, because they won't enforce your demands, but instead they'll just grab a random piece of land for themselves (even the UK and France) in the Balkans. Conquer Tunis, get some land in Morocco and Algeria, build as many troops as you can and get ready to reload a lot because it's really, really, REALLY hard. I managed to get all my cores except one (which I left deliberately, to have a free CB) in one war and got to GP status #7. The real problem is that the Ottomans will get new alliances with GPs and you can't really wait for an opportunity either, because they'll get sphered (since they won't retain their GP status).
You haven't seen ridiculous alliances until you're playing Prussia/NGF/Germany/etc. and France, Austria and Russia join together in one big alliance bloc. Then you know you're really screwed. God help you if Great Britain decides to get in on that alliance fun too.
I always make friends with Russia when I am playing Ottomans. And always make friends with USA when playing Mexico. Until GWs... at least. What's so ridiculous about that, it's good gameplay on the side of AI.
"Our officers of cavalry have acquired a trick of galloping at everything. They never consider the situation, never think of manoeuvring before an enemy, and never keep back or provide a reserve."
It's ridiculous that the Great Powers, that eventually helped the greeks in their revolution, will ally with the Ottomans against the Greeks. In one of my tries, the god damn UK allied with them and then I couldn't attack them because I would be indirectly attacking my sphere leader. Russia would never help tge Ottomans fight Greece. Yes, they didn't really help, because they wanted to keep the balance of power in the Balkans, but they wouldn't help the Ottomans directly. Ever. The point is... have you ever seen Greece expand? They can't even get Crete. Yes, they did most of the fighting themselves, even though they heavily relied on GP help, especially Russia, but when the revolution almost got crushed by the Egyptians, the GPs came in and helped. Granted, this happened before the starting date, but it's just a pointer really. As for the USA joining Mexico vs Texas, only to attack it right after, because Texas is a core, you can see why that doesn't make sense. Texas joined the states, why would the USA help Mexico crush them, when they clearly had an interest in letting them win? Even in game-terms, it's just stupid, since they will always attack them after beating down Texas. Naturally, the weirdest of all is Prussia allying right off the bat with Austria.
The point is that some alliances shouldn't be available, whether they're technically viable in game-terms or not. Alternate history may be the very essence of this game (and most other paradox titles), but at the start of the game, there is a certain historical background that should affect things.
And then Otto players would bitch that Russia is bullying them all day long. Cursing determinism.
"Our officers of cavalry have acquired a trick of galloping at everything. They never consider the situation, never think of manoeuvring before an enemy, and never keep back or provide a reserve."
I never said the GPs should actively help Greece. Not every time anyway. But they shouldn't help the Ottomans either. Historical expansion shouldn't be utterly impossible. In other words, have you ever seen Greece expand at all? I'm not even talking about historical borders, I'm talking about even a single state. I certainly wouldn't like it if the Ottomans got ganged up on, but the sick man of europe was also the not-so-very-popular man of europe. And it's not like Greece could ever expand on its own either. The Ottomans don't need an ally to win, they're a GP; a weak GP, but still a GP, while Greece isn't even a real SP. Their starting armies are more than Greece's total starting population, no joke. I'm just saying that, at the very least, the GPs should let Greece take a shot at it. Maybe even join every once in a while, help them a little (or a lot, because it's hopeless for them, unless the ottomans get all their armies wiped out by a revolt). The notion of Russia helping the Ottomans beat down the Greeks is, if anything, simply silly. Religion may not be a factor in in-game diplomacy, but it sure as hell mattered back then.
Papal States allying with any non-Christian (or even Catholic) country
@TheMcD
That is my problem in every single game with prussia.
I wonder how i should get E-L from france without a war agains half of europe.
Most of the time austria is in alliance with ottomans or france and russia has sphered sweden.
I try to absorb austrie for a really big german empire througt event (u must tear them down to second power via occupiing the whole austrian state)
But this is nearly impossible because even if austria stands alone - france will starts a war against you and russia and ottomans and the other joins them
i play with 1.3 and without AHD
these alliances are absurd
Last edited by Plumpi; 04-06-2012 at 12:43.
You mean, like crimean war?Originally Posted by moldeh
Also, i find that AI allies itself good, and challenging game for minors is also good.
the "historical" events should not be granted to you on the silver plate.
Can anyone explain to my why all the GP has alliances with each other and for me it is impossible to ally with one of them ?
The only chance is right from the beginning when you stop 1.1.1836 and try to ally but later it makes no sense.
I've had similar experiences. Even upped my relations as Japan with USA to +200, and still the chance for alliance was impossible.
They spam each other. You just boost relations, drop some of your current alliances (game is set to prevent too many of GPs allied to each other at the same time) and then wait for them to propose one to you.
I typically pick one GP I really really want to be BFFL with and make sure they have no reason to be pissed at me throughout the game. Typically it's Russia, because conquering Russia is too annoying.
"Our officers of cavalry have acquired a trick of galloping at everything. They never consider the situation, never think of manoeuvring before an enemy, and never keep back or provide a reserve."
The Crimean War wasn't about 'helping' the Ottomans in any way. It was about securing GP influence on their decaying empire. And Russia also wasn't on the ottomans' side. The notion of Russia jumping in to help the Ottomans fight the Greeks is simply stupid and I cannot see how the Crimean War had anything to do with it. Quoting a part of my post out of context makes for a very bad conversation, really. Comparing the Crimean War to the Ottomans allying with Russia in 1836 is silly. And, once again, I ask this: Have you ever, EVER, seen Greece expand at all? Even without its alliances, the Ottoman Empire can crush Greece in 2-3 months, without mobilising or even using more than 1/4 of their starting forces. Adding in Russia just makes things impossible, rather than just extremely hard for Greece.
Believe it or believe it not, the OE and Russia sort of were allied in 1836... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_..._%C4%B0skelesi
Histrically Grece was not capable of defeating OE, which is why it needed friends. Your failure to get em, is just your failure.
"
Muhammad Ali of Egypt, ostensibly only a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire, was seeking to increase his personal power and gain control over Palestine, Syria, and Arabia. In late 1831, he took his newly-reformed army into Syria, resulting in the Egyptian–Ottoman War (1831–1833) against the Ottoman Sultan, Mahmud II. Ali easily defeated Ottoman forces and threatened Constantinople itself. While Britain and France were sympathetic to Muhammad Ali, Nicholas I sent a Russian army to the assistance of the Ottoman Empire. This intervention led to the Convention of Kutahya in May 1833, which left Muhammad Ali in control of Syria and Arabia.
"
Next.
Once again, missing the point.
A. Failure to get friends? You start off in the UK's sphere, meaning you cannot get any allies other than the UK. And half of the time, the UK will ally itself to the Turk, so you cannot even attack (since the game treats this as attacking your sphere leader indirectly). Furthermore, any ally you get will *not* help you. If you had read my posts or tried playing as Greece, you would know that they will only enforce their own demands. Even the UK or even France (who might pull you out of the UK's sphere), will take a poor piece of land in the other side of the world and ignore your demands. Not to mention the UK won't even send any land forces. The real problem here, and the one you seem to be ignoring, is that in 1836, Greece already had strong friends. Another indication might be the fact that the three available Greek parties at the start of the game are named after the 3 Greatest Powers (French/British/Russian Faction).
B. As I already mentioned, the problem here isn't that the Great Powers hated the ottomans. They protected them directly or indirectly as they had an interest in keeping the balance of power in the Balkans. However, just because Russia helped the Ottomans in the Oriental Crisis, that doesn't mean they would ever help them fight the Greeks. And since we're throwing in wikipedia links, I might as well link this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence
That's 4 years before the start date. That's not to say that they always fully supported the greeks vs the turks, as pointed out here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-T...%E2%80%931922)Following years of negotiation, three Great Powers, Russia, the United Kingdom and France, decided to intervene in the conflict and each nation sent a navy to Greece. Following news that combined Ottoman–Egyptian fleets were going to attack the Greek island of Hydra, the allied fleet intercepted the Ottoman–Egyptian fleet at Navarino. Following a week long standoff, a battle began which resulted in the destruction of the Ottoman–Egyptian fleet. With the help of a French expeditionary force, the Greeks drove the Turks out of the Peloponnese and proceeded to the captured part of Central Greece by 1828. As a result of years of negotiation, Greece was finally recognized as an independent nation in May 1832.
In any case, it's not that simple. I understand that this is a game and it cannot represent how unstable alliances were in real life, but some things just don't make sense. What about Mexico and the states allying, only for this alliance to be broken right after the war, in order for the states to claim texas for themselves? Even in game terms this is silly. The point is, there are pre-existing conditions that should be factored in when alliances are made and there also future conditions that will almost certainly lead two parties at war, both conditions sort of make these kind of alliances 'ridiculous'.
If Greece wanna win some war, she needs allies. In real life, her allies were the another Balkan countries. Have you ever seen a succesful nationalist revolt in the OE? No? That's the problem
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