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Thread: Persia Changes?

  1. #21
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    Thanks, Semi-Lobster for the suggestion about a rebellious Injuid... wasn't sure on how to model it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Great looking map gigau, you even added some things I forgot to mention in the PM like splitting Khorramabad and creating an Illam province. But what's the OPM in Ahvaz?
    That's the province close to Basrah, right ? if so, it's the future Musha'shah. Note that it's still a work in progress.


    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    I REALLY do insist though on a Safaviyya Military Order state in Ardabil and Gilan though, they are obviously a VERY integral part of the formation of Persia.
    Hmmmm a new nation ? i'll think about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Another thing to point out is that at the start of the game the Jalayirids and the Chupanids (Sulduz) were at war with the Chupanids getting the worst of it, the Chupanids should start off with very bad stability as the Chupanids were incredibly unpopular.
    Okay, thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    The Hazaraspids were Sunni not Shia.
    Duely noted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Eretna also should not have a Turkish state culture, the Eretna unlike the other Anatolian beyliks, were a post Illkhanate and not a descendant of the Oghuz Sultanate of Rum and should be Mongol. This should also help the historical deterioration of the state by the rebellious Black Sheep Turks.
    Hmmm, they might get a culture shift of the government... except if i block it for mongol dynasties.


    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Another state that would be good to add are the Shia Baduspanids of Mazandaran who also controlled Qazvin and Semnan and who were very often at war with the Sarbadars and existed until being annexed by the Safavids. The country could simply be called 'Mazandaran' which should start off with the ruler Jalal-al-Dawla Eskandar Baduspanid with low centralization

    http://www.iranicaonline.org/article...itle-of-ostand
    Mazandaran is already in MEIOU... just wasn't on the map in 1356. Shall correct this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Lastly what is that two province country in the Gulf of Hormuz? To represent the autonomous Shabankara city states?
    Work in progress. I know they will later become under Oman. But i just wanted to highlight them as a reminder i have to dig a little deeper for proper history of those.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trin Tragula View Post
    Do I spot my hand in some of that Gigau?
    Sure don't know what you are talking about


    Quote Originally Posted by Trin Tragula View Post
    I hope you don't mind that I follow this thread as there's some very interesting discussion going on
    Of course i mind ! It is my right to pillage your mod, with you getting nothing !

    Welcome and, let me, in public, thank you for your data and maps for India and Persia
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  2. #22
    Sayonara Zetsubou Robusuta
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post
    Thanks, Semi-Lobster for the suggestion about a rebellious Injuid... wasn't sure on how to model it.


    I mean thats just how I would model them, to save a country tag, The Injuids by 1356 were completely screwed by 1356, they had overplayed their hand by declaring war of the Muzaffarids and had been at war with them for 6 years prior to the start of the game and had alienated the local Persian population with their brutality and misrule, the dynasty would only last until 1357 after Esfahan was taken.


    That's the province close to Basrah, right ? if so, it's the future Musha'shah. Note that it's still a work in progress.
    Ah I see, a Musha'sha'iyyah state is a good addition but the sect didn't take off until 1436. The province I mentioned being split from Khorramabad is to Illam

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilam_Province

    The reason for that being that Illam is Kurdish while Lorestan is Persian (sort of, they speak Lur).

    Hmmmm a new nation ? i'll think about it.
    Not just any nations, its the nation that would go on to form the first Persian empire since the Khwarezmids. The Safaviyya were a hereditary Shia/Sufi Military Order headed by a Grand Master/Sheikh that, starting in the mid 15th century would start a military campaign of conquest that would eventually lead to Ismail I unifying Persia in 1509.

    Hmmm, they might get a culture shift of the government... except if i block it for mongol dynasties.
    Hmm, On one hand playing as a normal Mongol dynasty on the Steppes, I could see cultural conversion to be be pretty normal but on the otherhand I've seen Baghdad culture flip to Mongol, and Tabriz to, which is not only ridiculous, but sort of game breaking.

    Mazandaran is already in MEIOU... just wasn't on the map in 1356. Shall correct this.
    Excellent!


    Work in progress. I know they will later become under Oman. But i just wanted to highlight them as a reminder i have to dig a little deeper for proper history of those.
    I see the Western province of the two is supposed to be Hormozgan but the other province thereto the East sort of seems to be Eastern Hormoz but then also encompasses a tiny area around Chahbahar Bay which is Baloch, interesting choice. North of that seems to be 'Interior Persian Balochistan' which should be called Pahrah since it looks like its south of Zahedan to me? Not too sure without a closer look somehow

    Welcome and, let me, in public, thank you for your data and maps for India and Persia
    No problem, cant wait to see the map again in more detail so I can pick it apart some more!
    Last edited by Semi-Lobster; 12-06-2012 at 17:29.

  3. #23
    Field Marshal Trin Tragula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post

    Of course i mind ! It is my right to pillage your mod, with you getting nothing !

    Welcome and, let me, in public, thank you for your data and maps for India and Persia
    Well honestly I don't think you have so much to be thankful to me for when it comes to the Persian parts yet. I'm reasonably happy with the map of Persia in Oriental mod as of the coming version but other than that the area is still more of an initial implementation without much detail and more of a base for future changes
    Lots of more stuff can be done in the area, as the comments of this thread show already (even if the Oriental mod doesn't aim to cover the period before 1399 like MEIOU does).
    Last edited by Trin Tragula; 12-06-2012 at 17:39.

  4. #24
    Sayonara Zetsubou Robusuta
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    An Idea DonCossack brought up in another thread are the autonomous Kurdish Emirates of Kurdistan, countries that at the start of the game, were vassals of the Jalyirids but eventually gained their independence and embroiled themselves in the seesaw battle between the Sunni Ottomans and the Shia Safavids. There were 4 Kurdish Emirates in 1356:

    The Principality of Bitlis, with their capital at Bitlis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Bitlis

    Emirate of Ardalan, with their capital at Sanandaj
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardalan

    Emirate of Bahdinan, with their capital at Amadiya
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahdinan

    And the Emirate of Loristan/Hazaraspids whom are already in the game

    Now these petty feudal emirates are all OPM at best and may ruin the proper 'flow' of the area but they're worth having a closer look into.

    Also what do you feel about an independent OPM Astarabad?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Vali
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togha_Temόr

    While in 1356 Togha Temur, last of the independent Ilkhanate claimants had been killed by the Sarbadars three years earlier, his base of Astarabad had been taken over by his governor Amir Vali who acted as 'regent' in place for Temur's son Luqman

  5. #25
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    I'll take a look. But adding new nation really need to add something significant, given we already have a whole lot of nations.
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  6. #26
    Sayonara Zetsubou Robusuta
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post
    I'll take a look. But adding new nation really need to add something significant, given we already have a whole lot of nations.
    That is true, Trin Tragula in another said he had the same problem and ended up just not adding them on the map but instead had them as revolters.

    I think a very big issue with Persia and the rest of the Middle East is the Timurids, in that.... they don't do anything. They spend the entire game just fending off Uzbek and Kazakh Hordes and are lucky to even maintain territorial integrity rather that getting to this

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-_873_(AH).png

    As for the other OPM, you could just make it a rebellious Sarbadar province, but Astarabad lasted a lot longer as an independent entity (1356–1366, 1374–1384) than the Chobanids

  7. #27
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    Note that "nations on the map" that have an impact on game performance are also the nations that are not on the map as existing nation but have cores on provinces.


    For the Timurids, haven't studied the matter for some time, but i'm trying to get them involved
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post
    Note that "nations on the map" that have an impact on game performance are also the nations that are not on the map as existing nation but have cores on provinces.


    For the Timurids, haven't studied the matter for some time, but i'm trying to get them involved
    Perhaps the best way about going about the Astarabad situation is to make it a rebel controlled province with an army?

    As for the the Timurids there are several issues probably that need to be addressed, the Timurids starting strength and probably a boatload of conquest missions.

  9. #29
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    Right now 'Sulduz' represents the Chupanid/Chobanid Mongols . I know you're trying to rename name these Khanates with regional names, and 'Sulduz' refers n ot to any geographical entity but to the Mongol Sulduz clan

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suldus

    Making this name as equally 'Dynastic' as the other names. Perhaps that should be renamed as well?

  10. #30
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    Right now 'Sulduz' represents the Chupanid/Chobanid Mongols . I know you're trying to rename name these Khanates with regional names, and 'Sulduz' refers n ot to any geographical entity but to the Mongol Sulduz clan

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suldus

    Making this name as equally 'Dynastic' as the other names. Perhaps that should be renamed as well?
    Well, if we keep the Jalayirid maongols, then we can keep the Cupanid ones. If we manage to settle with some changes that are suited for both gameplay and not getting too far from history, then yes, of course.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post


    Well, if we keep the Jalayirid maongols, then we can keep the Cupanid ones. If we manage to settle with some changes that are suited for both gameplay and not getting too far from history, then yes, of course.
    That makes sense, you might as well change Sulduz then to the more accurate Chobanids then.

    Hopefully we can get this Temur situation handled too, the Timurids are supposed to be Tigers, not little house kittens

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
    That makes sense, you might as well change Sulduz then to the more accurate Chobanids then.

    Hopefully we can get this Temur situation handled too, the Timurids are supposed to be Tigers, not little house kittens
    Honestly the Chagatai need to be changed from a steppe horde to a real country to make any kind of difference.
    "Resistance is futile. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be assimilated into the collective." - Genghis Khan

  13. #33
    F-CEO of EUIV:MEIOU and Taxes gigau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliphas8 View Post
    Honestly the Chagatai need to be changed from a steppe horde to a real country to make any kind of difference.
    But the Timurids should be getting the War Dynamsim feature when conquering Horde nations... i('ll have to check that it does as designed.
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