1.06 Information & First Expansion

[Nuril]

couldn't agree more, it's like "hey, you only bought the game on the second release day, that's why we are punishing you!", this does not only divide the community but also encourages piracy, why should i buy a dlc when i can't get the same features like people who bought it on day 1, isn't it better to me then to pay nothing and just pirate it?

There are no game features exclusive to those who pre-ordered at all.

[Anjwalker]

couldn't agree more, it's like "hey, you only bought the game on the second release day, that's why we are punishing you!", this does not only divide the community but also encourages piracy, why should i buy a dlc when i can't get the same features like people who bought it on day 1, isn't it better to me then to pay nothing and just pirate it?

I didn't think of the piracy issue, but that is also a point for Paradox to consider.

I guess its all about making sure people rush to buy the game though, so that Paradox gets more money quicker.

[Fagi]

Awesome, love you paradox.

[Voy]

I can imagine how the interface would look like for the pagans if they release a dlc in the future. All woody and wildlife-like with antlers decorating the interface + polygamy, different coat of arms shapes, barony pictures, titles, clothes, religious features. It would be great if they made them stronger too, which they probably will in the future.

I want pagans before Muslims, but it seems like "Sword of Islam" would create much immersion for the non-muslims playables as well in the diplomatic section perhaps. Lose a daughter to a sultan... etc.

[Darkrenown]

couldn't agree more, it's like "hey, you only bought the game on the second release day, that's why we are punishing you!", this does not only divide the community but also encourages piracy, why should i buy a dlc when i can't get the same features like people who bought it on day 1, isn't it better to me then to pay nothing and just pirate it?

Well firstly, I don't see what this has to do with SoI, it's not a preorder DLC...But no one is punished for not buying early, they are just not given the bonuses. If you think not being given the freebie advance customers got makes it ok to steal the main product, well, you are a terrible person. Congrats. All the more so since the one thing you can't get if you bought CK2 late is the gold forum icon which doesn't actually affect the game at all. Finally, day1 orders are the best for companies, so it's natural they/we want to encourage/reward them.

[Meneth]

Well firstly, I don't see what this has to do with SoI, it's not a preorder DLC...But no one is punished for not buying early, they are just not given the bonuses.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:
Such an argument could easily be used to justify something vital to the game not being included except for pre-orders, which I'd argue would be punishing late adopters.
Not the case with CKII's release obviously, but the argument itself isn't very good.

[riknap]

couldn't agree more, it's like "hey, you only bought the game on the second release day, that's why we are punishing you!", this does not only divide the community but also encourages piracy, why should i buy a dlc when i can't get the same features like people who bought it on day 1, isn't it better to me then to pay nothing and just pirate it?

as the dev said, it's rather off topic for this thread.
similarly, @Anjwalker, I don't think expansions can ever be made as a pre-order bonus. DLC to encourage pre-ordering, sure. As devs have shown before, budget for launch-date/pre-order-bonus DLC are often separate from budget from the main game. pre-orders help create a faster return of investment, thus giving away the minor DLC for free is worth it for the company relative to the early investment return.
It's not like they have a lot of "reserve funds" to draw upon. The faster the investment is returned, the better it is for both the financiers (who are assured of greater chance of success) and producers (more resources available to improve it).

Still (regarding @Meneth's post above), the company still has to be selective of what DLC's they want to give as freebies. While giving away major DLC's with pre-order is definitely an inducement towards faster rate of return, it's also both lost revenue and more importantly lost faith/respect/interest/whatever-descriptive-noun-you-want of the community, which by itself is a deterrent to future consumers/costumers of future titles/DLC's.

[spinoza013]

Wow another DLC discussion? How predictable and boring. 12 pages of entitled whining in the space of a day.

[Darkrenown]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:
Such an argument could easily be used to justify something vital to the game not being included except for pre-orders, which I'd argue would be punishing late adopters.
Not the case with CKII's release obviously, but the argument itself isn't very good.

Only if we redefine the word "bonus" and apply the ever-fun "slippery slope" argument. I suppose this is the kind of thing the devil's advocate might do, but I would rather you didn't It would also require the company in question to make a poor decision, as it does you no good to discourage late buyers, more sales are always good. Ideally you want anyone who comes late to see the pre-order bonus and feel "aww, that would have been neat, I should look out for the pre-order on their next game", not "why even bother if I don't get the Bloodsplosion Rifle?!(TM), the game is pointless without it."

[DCyDe]

But no one is punished for not buying early, they are just not given the bonuses

i see what you did there it doesn't mather if you call it a bonus for preorders or a punishment for non pre orders, it's the same.

I have no problem with an icon for preorders, but things like this:

For example, we plan to have a certain sub-forum which only 'true fans' of our internal titles can access where we'll let those people have a larger input on what we'll focus on for further development during the earliest part of the game's life-cycle. Of course, there'll also be a special icon indicating that you're a true fan, as well as unique avatars.

first off all you disencourage people who haven't preordered the game to buy it, 2nd you call everyone who hasn't preordered not a "true fan", there are people like me who have been playing paradox games since 10 years and i feel a little bit of a 2nd class customer when reading that, 3rd. why is there a difference if i buy the product on day1 or if i preorder it, you get the same amount of money, you should at least give all the so called "bonusss" to people who buy it in the first 1-2 weeks.

[Sleight of Hand]

What is this sub-forum for 'true fans'? Am I missing something or does it not yet exist?

[s1234567890m]

i see what you did there it doesn't mather if you call it a bonus for preorders or a punishment for non pre orders, it's the same.

I have no problem with an icon for preorders, but things like this:

For example, we plan to have a certain sub-forum which only 'true fans' of our internal titles can access where we'll let those people have a larger input on what we'll focus on for further development during the earliest part of the game's life-cycle. Of course, there'll also be a special icon indicating that you're a true fan, as well as unique avatars.

first off all you disencourage people who haven't preordered the game to buy it, 2nd you call everyone who hasn't preordered not a "true fan", there are people like me who have been playing paradox games since 10 years and i feel a little bit of a 2nd class customer when reading that, 3rd. why is there a difference if i buy the product on day1 or if i preorder it, you get the same amount of money, you should at least give all the so called "bonusss" to people who buy it in the first 1-2 weeks.

Dude your arguement has been done back and forth in the original thread. And johan has said several times, sales are never higher than day 1/ preorders

[A_Dane]

What is this sub-forum for 'true fans'? Am I missing something or does it not yet exist?

It was stated back when the whole DLC thing was announced, don't think it has happened, and not sure if it's still planned..

[Sleight of Hand]

It was stated back when the whole DLC thing was announced, don't think it has happened, and not sure if it's still planned..

Ah, okay. I just thought there was a secret forum and I wasn't allowed in.

[XxIzualxX]

It was stated back when the whole DLC thing was announced, don't think it has happened, and not sure if it's still planned..

I think it evolved into the beta program they have setup.

[Camara]

You better have a muslim DLC music too, I want to give you more moneyz.

[MartinSWE]

As long as the 'bonuses' given to players who pre-orders the game doesn´t include 'extra game content' I think it´s fair by Paradox to give away stuff. Also considering that almost every game released have 'flaws' initially, one of the reasons I don´t pre-order myself, I think it´s fair that those who chooses to pre-order get´s something extra for it.

[Darkrenown]

i see what you did there it doesn't mather if you call it a bonus for preorders or a punishment for non pre orders, it's the same.

I have no problem with an icon for preorders, but things like this:

For example, we plan to have a certain sub-forum which only 'true fans' of our internal titles can access where we'll let those people have a larger input on what we'll focus on for further development during the earliest part of the game's life-cycle. Of course, there'll also be a special icon indicating that you're a true fan, as well as unique avatars.

first off all you disencourage people who haven't preordered the game to buy it, 2nd you call everyone who hasn't preordered not a "true fan", there are people like me who have been playing paradox games since 10 years and i feel a little bit of a 2nd class customer when reading that, 3rd. why is there a difference if i buy the product on day1 or if i preorder it, you get the same amount of money, you should at least give all the so called "bonusss" to people who buy it in the first 1-2 weeks.

Lack of a bonus really isn't the same as punishment, it's just not. I don't feel like this is something that needs explaining, so I am not going to argue about it beyond this post, but if you buy X and receive X+Y, Y is a bonus. If you buy X and just get X you are just getting exactly what you bought, you are not being punished.

As regarding the rest of your post:
There is no other forum, that never happened.
No one has used the term "true fan" since that rather old post. I agree it's not a good term, but it's fairly moot at this point.
Icon + avatars is a forum bonus only, and in fact we DID give it to everyone who registered in the first X days after release, not just pre-order people.
In (very)short, day1 sales are more useful as it put you higher on stuff like top sellers lists sooner, which leads to more sales as more people hear about it/assume it is good if it is selling well etc.

Honestly, if anyone is discouraged from buying CK2 due to not getting the forum gold icon, I'd say just don't buy it, it's ok. I'd much rather people bought our games because they want to play them, I'd feel rather bad if they were just bought and thrown away to get a special forum icon.

[Yazman]

Holy jesus an incredible, awesome xpack is announced and instead of discussion over all the possibilities and the intriguing screenshot we got - look at that interface! love it! - we get a whole bunch of astoundingly entitled people crying about how $10 is too much to pay and whinging about pre-order bonuses, CK2 didn't even have any pre-order content in the game itself, what the hell are you crying for. Seriously?

THIS EXPANSION LOOKS AMAZING. QUIT DERAILING THE DAMN TOPIC!

[DCyDe]

thx for clearing the thing with the forum up, like i said i don't mind forum icons, achievements or other cod-generation stuff, however you should change the description of your dlc policy if it's outdated