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Thread: Too quick conversion?

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    Captain Dysydent's Avatar
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    Too quick conversion?

    Basically I think that conversion is way too easy in the game. In about 50 years of playing as Kingdom of Syria (in TPatT mod) I have converted the whole modern Syria and Lebanon to the Christian faith. Egyptians couldn't convert Copts (Egyptian Christians) in more than 1000 years, same with Maronites in Lebanon (shouldn't Beirut be christian maronite?), so why I managed to do it during only couple of generations? Not to mention, many of my provinces are Frankish now. The only provinces that should be moderately easy to convert should be pagan as they were less attached to their belief. I think that Muslim and Christian provinces should be converted much more difficultly and the only way to quick it should be to expel old inhabitants or kill them.
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    Field Marshal grommile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysydent View Post
    the only way to quick it should be to expel old inhabitants or kill them.
    I believe the policy is that Paradox games will not provide such options and that the forums are not to be used to discuss such options (or the policy).
    If you think someone's trolling, PM a moderator.

    Ask your quick modding questions in the appropriate place

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    Captain Dysydent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grommile View Post
    I believe the policy is that Paradox games will not provide such options and that the forums are not to be used to discuss such options (or the policy).
    There is an option to assassinate or execute a character so the game is pretty brutal after all. But what is my concern is that I can't really see any other way how can anybody convert a province in such a short time without doing such (nothing odd in the medieval times).
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    General nyah's Avatar
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    The conversion notification says that the 'majority' is converted. Are the majority in Egypt coptic?

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    Captain Dysydent's Avatar
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    It is hard to have even the 'majority' converted after such a short time when you have such a big population as in the Middle East (crusaders never had majority except of their own cities like Acre).
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    Quote Originally Posted by grommile View Post
    I believe the policy is that Paradox games will not provide such options and that the forums are not to be used to discuss such options (or the policy).
    Isn't there an option to exterminate the population of a newly conquered city in the games of the Total War series (at least there is in Rome: Total War and Medieval: Total War)? Why shouldn't it be possible in any Paradox game?

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    Egypt has an ahistorical Shiite majority in CK II, presumably for balance reasons.

    As for conversion itself, it's definitely too quick. I personally double the MTTH for the lord spiritual's conversion events as well, which means that heretical provinces take twice as long on average to convert.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leksu View Post
    Isn't there an option to exterminate the population of a newly conquered city in the games of the Total War series (at least there is in Rome: Total War and Medieval: Total War)? Why shouldn't it be possible in any Paradox game?
    No, there isn't such option in Paradox's games. It is rather touchy subject, so I can see why it has been evaded.

    But that is all about that, ok?

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    Captain Dysydent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baneslave View Post
    No, there isn't such option in Paradox's games. It is rather touchy subject, so I can see why it has been evaded.
    I understand, guess that if paradox had made such an option the game age limit would be higher, not to mention media coverage of the topic.

    But basically I think it is very important to make conversion much slower for monotheistic religions as now it is completely unhistorical.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by grommile View Post
    I believe the policy is that Paradox games will not provide such options and that the forums are not to be used to discuss such options (or the policy).
    And they won't provide options of slaughtering all tribals in African colonies, or enforcing Trail of Tears, or forcing all socialists to go on the streets to be put down like rabid dogs? Wait, they already do.

    Not to mention dozens of events that just make population of culture X\religion Y\occupation Z to "decrease by 10%"
    Last edited by gliomarto; 29-05-2012 at 11:58.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by leksu View Post
    Isn't there an option to exterminate the population of a newly conquered city in the games of the Total War series (at least there is in Rome: Total War and Medieval: Total War)? Why shouldn't it be possible in any Paradox game?
    I mentioned this in a similar thread awhile back.

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ns-pogroms-etc

    Creative Assembly don't have a problem with players wiping out entire cities. It's historical. Catholics and Crusaders didn't just slaughter Muslims and Jews, they killed their own as well, sometimes for political or economic purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambigore View Post
    Creative Assembly don't have a problem with players wiping out entire cities. It's historical. Catholics and Crusaders didn't just slaughter Muslims and Jews, they killed their own as well, sometimes for political or economic purposes.
    Guess that they, as a company, don't want to be controversial and want to sell their game by making it have low age rating (as I checked on an online shop it's 3+ which is pretty funny). The only possibility to make it more medieval (historically brutal) is to mod it.
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  13. #13
    Muslim and christian faiths are very very strong, so it's a bit unrealistic, but on the other hand, the way the game works with rebels makes it so tedius that I don't mind. It was pretty easy with the "Hunt rebels" option they introduced in EU3, but here you still have to manually raise levies in a nearby 2-3 regions, merge those armies, and then take out the rebels, and then disband, it's even worse if you're at war and have to single out armies to disband and raise by the rebels.

    So i don't mind it, seeing as i lose 4% revolt risk and don't have to do a ton of tedius repetitive work.

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    Captain Dysydent's Avatar
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    Maybe a player could decide whether he is going to treat local religious groups with tolerance (vide Muslims in Spain) - getting some bonuses but might be troublesome from time to time, try to convert them peacefully (very slow for Christians and Muslims, little quicker for pagans) or by force (still slow for big provinces, quicker in the smaller ones, still easier with pagans than Christians and Muslims). We do not need to make option to exterminate the whole population but we can use the euphemism "converting by force".
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  15. #15
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    I really don't quite see why some atrocities (for example conversion by the sword) are seen as worce than others, like wiping out natives in EU3. I'm not really sure if it would be historically accurate to include it in CK2, but it strikes me as odd that anyone would think that people who are playing a religious war/incest simulator would be hugely offended by force conversion. To an extent similar things are already in the game, if maybe not as extreme, but the game is hardly aimed at children, or for that matter, the easily offended - after all, what other games are there on the market which allow you to go on holy wars, found an empire, sire numerous bastards and watch your domain crumble after your inevitable death as a drunk, syphylitic madman?

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    its nhistorical. th genral population lived not in the cities ect. therefor it owuld be both very hard to wipe out the populations, as well as taking centuries before population was high enough again to function again.

    that beign said, conversion IS a tad quick. also, i'd like crusades/jhhads to be insta conversions to give new states an surviving chance.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by nyah View Post
    The conversion notification says that the 'majority' is converted. Are the majority in Egypt coptic?
    Up to the 11th century, it was. The Arab conquest was in the 640's.
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    Committed Anti-P'doxian Sleight of Hand's Avatar
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    Really in 1066 Monophysitism should spread further north, particularly in and around Alexandria. Cairo and a few other places should be Shiite but Islam probably wasn't the largest faith in Egypt at that time. At the very least it'd be about half and half. I think it was a balance decision so the Shiite Caliphate doesn't collapse early on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leksu View Post
    Isn't there an option to exterminate the population of a newly conquered city in the games of the Total War series (at least there is in Rome: Total War and Medieval: Total War)? Why shouldn't it be possible in any Paradox game?
    Irrelevant. Don't discuss it here.

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