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It's impressive that the rebels always manage to put together those 25000 strong armies after some of those losses - do they have reinforcements sailing in from Greece or something? :p
Besides being perfidious rebels, they're also necromancers, resurrecting their dead to fight (and die) another day. It's the only explanation that makes sense.
 
It's impressive that the rebels always manage to put together those 25000 strong armies after some of those losses - do they have reinforcements sailing in from Greece or something? :p
Ah they breed like rabbits in those hills.:p
 
Those rebels certainly were persistent.
Pesky, uppity farmers and assorted brigands. Looks like you must have decimated the population in the heel of Italy. The number of deaths is staggering. At least we know that eventually things will calm down - but how long before that happens? I must say, expanding in the East seems an ever more distant prospect, the way the Danube and these sorto-Greeks eat up your manpower.
It's impressive that the rebels always manage to put together those 25000 strong armies after some of those losses - do they have reinforcements sailing in from Greece or something? :p

My, if I was to be boring and logical, rationale is what is happening is basically there is a huge brigandage problem. Every now and then they chance their luck (or get caught) with the legions, if they lose then they disperse back into the hills. Sort of fits the way the game engine makes rebel stacks evaporate on defeat in the province they spawn in.

On the other hand, this explanation is rather appealing
Besides being perfidious rebels, they're also necromancers, resurrecting their dead to fight (and die) another day. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

You really do want me to do a steampunk AAR don't you? I may yet be tempted.

Ah they breed like rabbits in those hills.:p

Well if you'd see the rabbit that terrorised Venezuela in my Vicky2 AAR then you wouldn't say that lightly. Even more deadly than the kitten it was ... at least till it ended in the stewpot.
 
Domestic Politics 662-679

Part I: 662-667 - The dominance of the Religious Faction

Domestically, Roman politics continued as before. Too many ambitious men placed their own interests in front of those of the state. At the start of this period, the Religious Faction appeared to completely dominate civic and political life within the Republich. However, they over-reached when they sought to completely marginalise all the other groupings. Slowly the dominant Religious faction broke up and was replaced in turn by the Mercantile faction.

This new grouping was composed of two main political strands. One argued for the consolidation of power across the state purely within the faction and the other that stability lay in sharing the spoils of office with those of different political groupings. In this, they were able to point to the fall of the Religious Faction once it had started to ignore the need to spread wealth and power widely across the Senate.

It was this dispute that had lain at the heart of the machinations around the trial of Sertorius in 676. His family was part of the grouping that had argued for keeping the spoils of office within a narrow clique. His disgrace was a signal to members of the other factions, that the rising group within the Mercantalists was prepared to act against its own and to share the offices of state (and their scope for personal enrichment). The result of this strategy was to entrench the Mercantalists as the power in the Senate for the next 20 years until they were challenged by the Populists.

However, in 662, the Religious Faction was still dominant and Crassus held the Consulship. In consequence appointments were made on the basis of simple calculations of self-interest. Mere lack of Italian ancestory was no problem as long as the individual publicly proclaimed the correct loyalties.



Crassus was followed by Sextus Julius and it seemed as if the dominance of the Religious Faction was fixed for a generation.



Emboldened they passed the Lex Acilia Repetundarium. This was designed to extend their influence by bringing the middle classes into the judicial system. What they hoped was that the Equestrian orders would then show their gratitude by supporting the policies of the Religious Faction.



However, in the short term it produced domestic turmoil. Almost all the other Senatorial factions objected to this imposition of being dragged off to be tried by their social inferiors. Even so, using their dominance, they were able to face down the opposition and briefly it seemed as if their gamble had paid off.



A growing feature of this time was the tendency of such political disputes to spill over from the heated debates in the Senate to murder on the streets.



Nonetheless, turmoil and murder were of little concern compared to the serious business of retaining control of the Republic. The next Consul, Lucius Scipio was also drawn from the Religious Faction and was only slightly more competent than Sextus Julius.



In consequence, the Senate continued with its rowdy debates and murder became an even more common feature of Roman life.



This time, Lucius Stilo, one of the few non-religious holders of senior office, bravely insisted in speaking before the Senate. In the short term it made no difference as the Religious Faction continued to consolidate its power.



Even so, Stilo's courage had consequences. Cotta's cowardice in not speaking out was well known and widely contrasted to Stilo's bravery. Under pressure in August 665, he finally spoke before the Senate.



Again, the initial result was the opposite that their opponents had hoped for. The Religious Faction became even more closed and the college of Augurs came under pressure to make certain prophesies public. The result was to increase their power in the Senate, but at a cost.



Realising that their disunity was leading to the growing control of the Relgious Faction, all the others backed Lucius Mettelus' candidacy for the consulship.



However, he failed in his bid. None of the Religious faction would back him when it came to the actual vote, but equally despite owning the allegiance of almost 50% of the Senate, they could not impose their own. By this time the Civic Faction had dwindled to the point of near disappearance. Even so, in Lucius Cinna they possesed a leader well versed in the process of Senatorial politics. Meetings occured in bathhouses, plots were hatched during religious ceremonies, and over Saturnalia, key members of the Senate were invited to lavish parties near Capua.

The result surprised all, except Cinna.



Power in the Senate had shifted, but the implication was not clear to any contemporary observers.
 
Hum, a completely unknown and part of a 98% dead faction gains control of the Republic with the previous controlling faction still being the strongest around. There is absolutely no way this can go wrong ... :D
 
Nice bit of politicking. Not sure what Cinna will bring to the Consulship (and the Republic), besides the aforementioned decline of the Religious faction, but I look forward to finding out about it.
Hum, a completely unknown and part of a 98% dead faction gains control of the Republic with the previous controlling faction still being the strongest around. There is absolutely no way this can go wrong ... :D

I think you'll find that Cinna made Machievelli seem like a rank amateur ... The unexpected thing was the speed of the Religious faction decline (I wasn't playing for this as the bonus to Omen power from their consuls was welcome), my only consistent domestic act is to weaken the Populists (or try to)
 
Domestic Politics 662-679

Part 2: 667-679, Rise of the Mercantalist Faction

Cinna's consulship was the start of the Religious faction's loss of influence. Operating on the basis of a constantly shifting set of alliances, he sought to weaken them and by early 668 felt confident enough to openly promote his own Civic grouping.



His reliance on secret meetings and subtle shifts of policy became legendary in the Senate. He had perhaps few friends and more admirers but even his most hardened opponent had to smile when he was able to proclaim the Gods were on his side.



By the summer of 668 he had decided that the only means to permanently weaken the Religious faction was to promote the power of the larger Mercantalist grouping. As they were to find, Cinna's support came with a high price.



However, not all the plots in this period were of his making. The Religious faction was in confusion as it lost power, but was still able to manipulate events to suit its own interests.



Of course there were those who saw, even in this, Cinna's hand. How better to pretend not to manipulate all events when he had firm evidence that outcomes contrary to his own interests could occur?

As Cinna's consulship neared its end, he made plans for the future. In the first case he was prepared to hand the consulship to Metellus but he also created a long term alliance with one of the groupings within the Mercantalist party. In turn this was to create a long term power base for him within the Senate.



By late 668 the consulship passed, as it should have in 666 to Lucius Metellus. Metellus' lack of subtlety was an advantage at least for Cinna, as his wisdom and guidance was sought after, giving him a voice even after his consulship was over.



It was not just in the realm of politics that Rome steadily changed. From the east came various Greek ideas, even if they were quickly incorporated into Roman life, it was a novelty that a Republic built by farmers and soldiers felt the need for men who spoke in riddles and thought in the abstract. Once glory was based on a well run farm or a life of selfless service, now the powerful found as much glory in sponsoring a philosophical evening as in the affairs of state.

With wealth, and with a growing focus on display not form, the architecture of the new Rome became increasingly ornate.



Not all the new art made the impression desired by its new owner.



By this time Metellus was the laughing stock of Rome. Yes he was an able soldier but completely ill at ease with the social mores of the new aristocracy. It was easy for Cinna to ensure that his friend, Lucius Caesar, became consul in 670 as the Religious Faction became more and more marginalised.



Many, even his critics, accepted that Cinna brought stability. With the political process firmly in his hands the raw politics, violence and drama passed away. For some this was a loss, to many it was welcome. Rome's borders may have been in turmoil, but the central provinces of Italy lay at peace..



Quintus Caepio followed Lucius in 672 and in turn was followed by Decimus Brutus in 674.



To broaden the appeal of the faction, for the first time a Senatorial grouping actively sought the approval of the poor. The growing threat of revolt by the fast growing population of Rome was reduced by the introduction of the corn dole.



With the exile of Sertorius in early 676, a subtle shift of policy occured. Or, more correctly, the Mercantile faction decided to be consistent in the sharing of power. Lucius Merula may have been incompetent, but his accession to the Consulship in 676 was an important signal of this shift.



With the Religious Faction marginalised, the Mercantalists could afford to relax their grip on power.

To many outside, the Republic seemed a strong unified state. Its fame and appeal steadily spread as did its borders.



Merula might have been incompetent, but he managed to secure the passage of the Lex Civitas Deses. This saw a substantial increase in the discipline and power of the legions. A reform that proved its worth during the Third Numidian War.



Gnaeus Dolobella followed in 678. The return of the consulship to the Mercantalists being overlooked in the relief that the state was again in the hands of such a competent leader.



Unfortunately, given what was to come, Rome was in need of more than mere competence.[1]

[1] this completes the political/domestic side of chapter two. Time now for some wars. Then Chapter three with its return to Civil War, dealing with the evil Gallic threat and a few small wars in the East. As a gameplay note, what I am doing is playing the chapter beyond the one I am writing up. So I have some idea of the immediate consequences beyond the narrative but not how this is going to end. This also helps when I am making sense of my screenshots as it reduces the feeling of bemusement as to why I took that particular image or how to sort out the material.
 
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Why, it does almost look like Rome just had a prolonged bout of competent governance. Surely, this situation can't last, external threats or no. ;)

Let's see what these 'some wars' are - sounds like rather small stuff, should be easily managable, right? As opposed to the capitalized Civil War to follow (which iteration of the civil war is that? Third? Fourth?). I expect some more major hurt when that comes around (after all, every death in the civil war is a Roman who could've better been spent dying whilst fighting the barbarians).
 
Methinks that the breaking of the Religious faction might have more far-reaching consequences than the Mercantilists counted on. If I'm reading those numbers right, the faction that gained the most ground is the Populists -- certainly not a good sign!
 
The rise of the Populares is definitely concerning. I suppose that this is hindsight for you but that Senate distribution evolution means trouble ;) It looks like the successors of Cinna were too busy trying to dismantle the Religious faction to notice that :p
 
I'm deeply concerned about the relative unity and stability of the state. It feels like the calm before the storm...but perhaps Rome and CK2 have just managed to make me paranoid whenever things start to go well.
 
...but perhaps Rome and CK2 have just managed to make me paranoid whenever things start to go well.
Remember, it's not paranoia when they're really after you. And in the case of this Roman Republic, it's a given that someone somewhere is out to get someone else. Or everybody else. So I believe you're spot on. :)
 
Why, it does almost look like Rome just had a prolonged bout of competent governance. Surely, this situation can't last, external threats or no. ;)

Let's see what these 'some wars' are - sounds like rather small stuff, should be easily managable, right? As opposed to the capitalized Civil War to follow (which iteration of the civil war is that? Third? Fourth?). I expect some more major hurt when that comes around (after all, every death in the civil war is a Roman who could've better been spent dying whilst fighting the barbarians).

Only the Second .... not bad for what will have been about 40 years of gameplay by then ... and no, domestic stability isn't really going to be a regular theme, but I could do with things calming down as this constant niggling drain on my manpower is a real problem (even with my growing use of mercenaries)

Methinks that the breaking of the Religious faction might have more far-reaching consequences than the Mercantilists counted on. If I'm reading those numbers right, the faction that gained the most ground is the Populists -- certainly not a good sign!
The rise of the Populares is definitely concerning. I suppose that this is hindsight for you but that Senate distribution evolution means trouble ;) It looks like the successors of Cinna were too busy trying to dismantle the Religious faction to notice that :p

You are both absolutely spot on. I'm 15 years ahead in gameplay (so the stuff that will form the 3rd chapter) and domestically the Populists are very much on the rise. I've just kept the consulship out of their hands but its touch and go and I suspect the next block of gameplay is going to see a Populist civil war.

I'm deeply concerned about the relative unity and stability of the state. It feels like the calm before the storm...but perhaps Rome and CK2 have just managed to make me paranoid whenever things start to go well.

No, I mean when playing Rome one must keep in mind the most famous words ever spoken in a British made film - 'in for me, in for me, they've all got it in for me' - and that was in a rigouress historically accurate rendition of Ceasar's last speech

Remember, it's not paranoia when they're really after you. And in the case of this Roman Republic, it's a given that someone somewhere is out to get someone else. Or everybody else. So I believe you're spot on. :)

Yep ... what ever you do in this game, someone feels put out. Its a miracle that Rome ever got around to expansion.
 
The Second Numidian War 665-673

The loss of Oea at the end of the first war remained a contentious issue in Rome. The displaced settlers agitated for recompense – preferably the return of their lands, if not then financial compensation. It became an easy issue that any ambitious senator could pick up and pretend to promote. It allowed accusations of incompetence and ignoring a mortal threat to Rome to be levied at the desired target. Equally there was a growing perception that time was running out.



Finally in early 665, Lucius Julius gave in to this pressure with a declaration of war on Numidia.



6 legions were deployed. The 4th and 15th at Carthage, the 2nd landed at Oea after the short crossing from Sicily and the 7th defended at Leptis Magna. To the west, the 8th crossed into Tingis and moved to occupy the Numidian forts in Mauretania. Initially the 5th was held back to protect Gades.



Oea, itself was found to be weakly garrisoned and quickly conquered.



The initial skirmishes in the east ended in Rome's favour with a series of hard won but welcome victories.



However, at sea, the war quickly turned against Rome. Clearly in the 12 years since the last war, the Numidians had expanded their navy



Shortly after, the Roman fleet regained some control of the seas around Gades but at significant cost.


[1]

After this 'victory' the Roman fleet remained in port for the balance of the war.

The feeling of events spiralling out of control in the west was confirmed when the legions faced their first setback in the war when the attempt to capture Rusadir failed badly with heavy losses for the 8th.



Fortunately Gaius Longinus had anticipated this problem and quickly deployed the 5th Legion to protect the 8th's retreat route.



The result was the hard fought defensive victory at Tingis which dealt a serious blow to Numidia's forces in the west at the same time as their Eastern army had been comprehensively beaten.



However, Rome was not the only power with claims on Numidia. At the time, Egypt's intervention was welcomed as placing Numidia under more pressure, but in the long term had the effect of replacing one North African threat to Rome with another.



If victory was clear in the East, the situation in the West fluctuated. After their victory at Tingis, the 5th legion had again advanced to Rusadir in an attempt to destroy the Numidians (leaving the 8th to recover its strength). However, here the Numidians turned the tables with a major victory that led to the capture of Gaius Longinus.



Added to their naval dominance, there was now a fear that the war could spread to Spain.

Fortunately in the east, the war continued to favour Rome. By the end of July the battered Numidian armies were brought to battle at Phazania and quickly routed.



With this, the Senate agreed to offer peace terms. In effect Numidia would cede almost all of Cyrenicia, confirming Rome's domination of the cenral Mediterranean.




To consolidate these gains, veterans were settled inland to secure the Oasis at Nassamones. This small colony was quickly built into a major fort to block any further Egyptian expansion.

As ever, the potential rewards of a new province provoked infighting in Rome. Titus Albicus finally secured the governership in late 668,



The war between Egypt and Numidia finally ended in October 673 with the Egyptians securing valuable provinces near Carthage.



At this North Africa settled back into an uneasy peace. However, it was now divided between 3 powers and none trusted the intentions of the others. Rome and Egypt were locked in a struggle to prevent the other completing their dominance of the region and Numidia was plotting the means to regain the recently lost lands.

[1] – that was half my expensively built up navy sunk
 
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Nice gains, unfortunate that Egypt decided to take land between your North African holdings.

Your mercenary approach must limit the typical invincible Roman navy in this game. Without them, since manpower limits the army recruitment, where else are you going to dump all that extra cash? :laugh:

Yep ... what ever you do in this game, someone feels put out. Its a miracle that Rome ever got around to expansion.

True dat, and then that someone will wreck half the country even if everyone else loves you. I remember a game as Rome where all of my generals, admirals and governors were devotedly loyal and the populists had like four senators, and still one random government employee (one of the tech guys IIRC) managed to secure the backing of half the provinces in his one man civil war due to some ambition & event combination that damaged his loyalty. This game can be very unforgiving. :D
 
Urgh. Those were some unforgiving battles, both on land and on the sea. That's a lot of gold and manpower lost, and all you got back was a bunch of sand. Not the greatest trade-offs, I feel. And that was before the Egyptians jumped in and took some choice lands to encircle your colony in Carthage... Perhaps, in hindsight, not the most productive war for Rome.

Then again, while the Egyptian menace in North Africa is intolerable and a clear act of aggression against your legitimate interests, the territories they have occupied might help you build some easy warscore, whenever the (first of many?) war with Egypt comes. Speaking of that possibility, and keeping in mind your less than stellar performance against the Numidian navy, how's Egypt's navy looking?
 
The manpower problems are like a spear in the side.
Is their any possibility of a fix for it or are you doomed to live with it?
 
Hum, a lot of lost men for a bunch of sand and with the Egyptians grabbing your hard work for their gain. Not the best possible outcome :/

I wonder how this will hit down in home, especially with the prospect of yet another civil war in the horizon...
 
Nice gains, unfortunate that Egypt decided to take land between your North African holdings.

Your mercenary approach must limit the typical invincible Roman navy in this game. Without them, since manpower limits the army recruitment, where else are you going to dump all that extra cash? :laugh:

True dat, and then that someone will wreck half the country even if everyone else loves you. I remember a game as Rome where all of my generals, admirals and governors were devotedly loyal and the populists had like four senators, and still one random government employee (one of the tech guys IIRC) managed to secure the backing of half the provinces in his one man civil war due to some ambition & event combination that damaged his loyalty. This game can be very unforgiving. :D

In a way the loss of the fleet was a bit mheh. OK I'd have rather not, but to rebuild it is simply a matter of money (that I have a lot of) and time (really as long as I don't tangle with Egypt). In a way this game has a rebel/revolt dynamic more akin to CK1, in that things can just happen, one bad event, one oversight and whoops there goes the Empire.

It was after this period that I went down the mercenary route. At this stage I was still (foolishly) trying to rebuild the 14 or so legions that I'd had at the end of the Civil War. After the first Numidian War I rationalised this down to 8 by more or less disbanding every cohort that was not loyal to someone, and sending some of the 0 value cohorts that were loyal off to teach the Germans how to dress properly in the toga etc. So I briefly had a decent manpower stock, raised I the equivalent of two legions (as I was trying to move away from the heavy infantry force the game starts with to a more balanced legion mix).

That was then eaten in the uprisings and the Danube campaign. So its really right at the end of this chapter/start next that I then started to rely heavily on mercanaries - not least I really needed a couple more legions as will become clear fairly soon.

Urgh. Those were some unforgiving battles, both on land and on the sea. That's a lot of gold and manpower lost, and all you got back was a bunch of sand. Not the greatest trade-offs, I feel. And that was before the Egyptians jumped in and took some choice lands to encircle your colony in Carthage... Perhaps, in hindsight, not the most productive war for Rome.

Then again, while the Egyptian menace in North Africa is intolerable and a clear act of aggression against your legitimate interests, the territories they have occupied might help you build some easy warscore, whenever the (first of many?) war with Egypt comes. Speaking of that possibility, and keeping in mind your less than stellar performance against the Numidian navy, how's Egypt's navy looking?

When they joined in I was pretty glad as I was struggling to finish the war before attrition destroyed me. I think I've created a neat trap for Egypt. As we'll see in the next post I now grab all that was left of any value and build up a mass of really large fortresses. They can have the rest except Hippo (the only province left of any potential value) and I start fortifying those provinces. So if/when I get war with Egypt I'll let them campaign there pretty much unhindered till they have lost badly from attrition (thats my plan in any case)

The manpower problems are like a spear in the side.
Is their any possibility of a fix for it or are you doomed to live with it?

I try every trick. I do a mass disband at the end of the Second Numidian war, but my core problem is that simple losses to rebels and barbarians are enough to mean my manpower never recovers. I then shift to a largely mercenary force (I can afford it). I think the next iteration is barbarians in places where I don't want to expand will be bribed to go away. That should remove some pointless battles.

Hum, a lot of lost men for a bunch of sand and with the Egyptians grabbing your hard work for their gain. Not the best possible outcome :/

I wonder how this will hit down in home, especially with the prospect of yet another civil war in the horizon...

Yes and No. I got most of what I'd wanted, and oddly a strong Egypt is less of an immediate threat. I strongly suspect this game is going to come down to a major clash as they are rich, have a huge manpower reserve but so far they haven't been that expansionist.