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Thread: Salem, Initial Impressions: I have no idea what I'm supposed to do.

  1. #41
    STANKIEM TheeLord's Avatar
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    This is so rediculous that some of you got upset with the OP, it's beta feedback should be completely welcomed!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by TheeLord View Post
    This is so rediculous that some of you got upset with the OP, it's beta feedback should be completely welcomed!
    Whose upset?
    Hermits with benefits.

    Enter all ye who seek knowledge : Salem Wiki

  3. #43
    Recruit

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    I can understand the OP quite good - I played Dwarf Fortress a lot, mind you before getting all "l2p n00b" on me - but starting Salem I just expected a different beginning, more Tutorial and not the whole "grind forums und wikis for information" stuff, just because I suspect Salem to be targeted at a different (read: broader) audience. Like EVE, maybe. And EVE gave me every information I needed to survive day one.

    Starting Salem without even a body was really strange - I first thought my graphics were broken or something like this. Figured out what I was supposed to do pretty fast, but then got stuck again because traveling with the ship is highly unintuitiv.

    Right now Salem has a really steep learning curve, with a few hints thrown in. I only yesterday figured out how the raise-skills-system works (which is a bit emberrassing, to be honest )

    Maybe I should just sit down and write a new newbie-guide by myself, as the old ones just don't really cover what is needed. Base function, ie.

    Greetings,
    Nala

  4. #44
    Meteorsexual Teurlinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nala View Post
    I can understand the OP quite good - I played Dwarf Fortress a lot, mind you before getting all "l2p n00b" on me - but starting Salem I just expected a different beginning, more Tutorial and not the whole "grind forums und wikis for information" stuff, just because I suspect Salem to be targeted at a different (read: broader) audience. Like EVE, maybe. And EVE gave me every information I needed to survive day one.

    Starting Salem without even a body was really strange - I first thought my graphics were broken or something like this. Figured out what I was supposed to do pretty fast, but then got stuck again because traveling with the ship is highly unintuitiv.

    Right now Salem has a really steep learning curve, with a few hints thrown in. I only yesterday figured out how the raise-skills-system works (which is a bit emberrassing, to be honest )

    Maybe I should just sit down and write a new newbie-guide by myself, as the old ones just don't really cover what is needed. Base function, ie.

    Greetings,
    Nala
    I'd say you're exactly right. And the fact that whatever info there is is written in incredibly small text on a high resolution monitor doesn't help either.

    It took me 15 minutes to get into Boston, after that I got completely lost and only advanced when playing with a friend who explained me stuff.

    At a minimum all the basics need to be explained better. It would be even better if they were intuitive so they didn't need explaining.

    I played EVE, Dwarf Fortress, I played MUDs back in the day. I played a Jane's Advanced Tactical Fighters flight sim when I was 8-9, but this game eats the cake being hard to pick up and getting totally lost.

    I know there's the 'elite HnH in-crowd' thing to whom it's all too easy. But I doubt anyone else can play this game with just the in-game information.
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  5. #45
    Second Lieutenant

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
    If the Devs want to keep this game small to a few people, everything is fine. If they want to have some more players they need to:
    1. Make I nice tut. It wouldn`t be that hard telling a small story, why my char left europe, seeking for a new chance ...blablalba...
    2. Make permadeath not the end of the game, but the start of a new char with 20-40% less skills...
    3. Make a statemeant, which makes clear, that they want to reach a larger player base so that everyone in community is switching from Get-Away-Mode to Help-mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by TriMoon View Post
    I didn't think it was such a secret that the current players try to avoid contact with others unless they are strong enough to engage in battle at that time.
    What he means is that such a statement would persuade people to seek contact and help eachother (especially new players), instead of trying to stay out of range....
    Sorry, that`s not what i meant. My fault - bad english.

    The (most part of the) community so far is very harsh to new players. Best example:
    If you can't get past the character creation, you don't deserve to play this game.
    . The community argues this is okay, because they think this is a pvp game for "hard people". So someone needs to tell them (the community) that this is a crafting MMO where also "normal people" are welcomed who like to play without a focus on killing other players. Paradox has avoided a clear statement on that imho and hasn`t made them stop. So first paradox needs to make themselves clear. Then they need to enforce this sentiment also in community forums. As long as normal players are getting insulted if they search help, or have problems ingame, this game won`t expand to a MMO, escpecially a crafting mmo.

  6. #46
    a bug Demi Moderator Letar's Avatar
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    I cannot speak for Paradox nor Seatribe, but I believe "normal" and new players are very welcome and encouraged to try out and play Salem. Let's also remember we are still in beta but I believe many betas will stay for the release and thus form the base of the community. I have hopes that this will turn out more newbie friendly than the current situation suggests.

    On the matter of new insulting new players: Harrasment/personal attacks are clearly forbidden in the forum rules and will not be tolerated. If you feel offended or insulted you can contact a moderator of these forums to sort the things out for you.

    And a note to all: If you have the need to comment or discuss the forum moderation you have to use the PM system for that. Public forums is not the place for these discussions or comments on (any) Paradox forum.

    That said, I'll hope your Salem experience gets better in the future!
    Last edited by Letar; 28-05-2012 at 13:13.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicManICT View Post
    If that's what he meant, then what kind of possible statement could be made?
    Well how about this:
    Because we still are in actual development of the game, we kindly ask you to only engage in PvP with others IF they accept your offer to PvP.
    This way other new beta-testers can progress freely and provide us with much needed feedback and bug reports.
    We seriously need more population to stay in the game and test our game.
    --- Salem management
    Would that do the trick?

  8. #48
    Second Lieutenant

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    No it won`t. First: PvP is not the problem. It`s the behavior of those players in (help) forums. Second: It also doesn`t say anything about different playstyles. Atm Non-PvP-play-styles are not accepted here and are always the basis for insulting others. Non-PvP-playstyles need to be accepted the same way as pvp-game-styles. And not only in Beta.

  9. #49
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    I don't really know how long you guys have been playing EVE. There used to not be any tutorials in it. I've not been playing that long myself, but I've read up on the history of it during the time I have played and I clearly recall patch notes and expansions mentioning "missions" and "tutorials", two things that were very early in development, but not there on release.

    Proper tutorials are hard to do. In a game with a lot of depth, no matter how hard you try, some people just aren't going to get the complexities. My issues is one and one alone: Seatribe is very hard at work getting everything implemented. There's room for more, but can they at least get the game fully functioning before adding in extra work with complaints about a lack of "new player experience" when there's tons of us out here that are vets and more than willing to help?

  10. #50
    I was attracted to this game because I heard it has permadeath, and no permanent cities, and a struggle for survival. Also, I live in Virginia so that was a draw as well.

    I think the developers are too caught up on functionality instead of usability. I like games with very high difficulty (Mabinogi, Touhou), but I absolutely hate guessing games.

    Screenshot from the other day: http://i50.tinypic.com/r1c1o4.jpg

    A good tutorial should have been one of the first things implemented before playtesting began.

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