Timurids partial annexation?

[Norlion]

So after years of playing off and on I finally decided to dive in a make a go at EU3. I can finally balance my economy and politics, fight wars and suppress rebellions. I am playing as the Mamluks and attempting to go for more than my usual 10 years (kept going bankrupt). So it is something like 1414 and the Timurids annexed Deir az-Zour back in the invasion of 1406. I think I wasn't paying attention when I accepted that truce. My army is of superior quality and I have swept the Timurids from Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran. My 'warscore' is 56%. They beg for a peace that will give me 5 prestige but no territory. On the 'sue for peace' button annexation of any territory is greyed out. I want my dizzy (Deir az-Zour) back at least.

How do you annex part of a territory?

Ethiopia freely offered 3 territories to me back in 1402 after I had wiped out their army and occupied about half their territory. I accepted as assimilating territory takes time and there is already a lot rebellion in the Mamluk Sultanate. I can't accept a peace without land since I will not have another 50k horde taking me by surprise. I can try to take all of the Timurid territory but it is sooo big and I don't think I can eat a pie that big at once.

[ajsciri4]

Click on a province the Timurids own. Click on "Sue for Peace." Then, click "demand tribute." You can now click what provinces you want to take from the enemy.

You can only annex provinces you finished sieging, represented by your own color as diagonal lines crossing the enemy territory. To the left of each province listing is a percentage. This percentage is how much "war score" the territory requires to take.

Sorry if you knew all this. In DW, you have to colonize territories of hordes. Or something like that. Others know more about hordes than me, I only play western European nations.

EDIT: Forgive me, I misread. I thought you were saying the annex button was greyed out, and you were wondering how to only take some territories. Sorry, I think my post is now irrelevant.

[Gpeterse]

So after years of playing off and on I finally decided to dive in a make a go at EU3. I can finally balance my economy and politics, fight wars and suppress rebellions. I am playing as the Mamluks and attempting to go for more than my usual 10 years (kept going bankrupt). So it is something like 1414 and the Timurids annexed Deir az-Zour back in the invasion of 1406. I think I wasn't paying attention when I accepted that truce. My army is of superior quality and I have swept the Timurids from Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran. My 'warscore' is 56%. They beg for a peace that will give me 5 prestige but no territory. On the 'sue for peace' button annexation of any territory is greyed out. I want my dizzy (Deir az-Zour) back at least.

How do you annex part of a territory?

Ethiopia freely offered 3 territories to me back in 1402 after I had wiped out their army and occupied about half their territory. I accepted as assimilating territory takes time and there is already a lot rebellion in the Mamluk Sultanate. I can't accept a peace without land since I will not have another 50k horde taking me by surprise. I can try to take all of the Timurid territory but it is sooo big and I don't think I can eat a pie that big at once.

Hordes are different (assuming you are playing Divine Wind). To take their territory you need to select a province of theirs that you occupy and colonize it. After the number of colonists reaches 1000 it automatically becomes your province. If you lose control of the province at any time your colonists disappear.

[Umega]

After the number of colonists reaches 1000 it automatically becomes your province.

The province doesn't defect instantly, you have to wait until the end of the month for the province to turn.

[Norlion]

wow thanks...I put settlers in Deir az-Zour up to 700+ by 1418 so it should work. You can only do this with bordering provinces and of course by having colonists. I knocked over the Iraq powers to expand my border. Once I knock out the rest of the Arab peninsula I should be able to slowly gobble up more Timurid territory. Many thanks.

[Norlion]

So I figured out screenshots to show you all what I am talking about. I did get Dizzy back via colonization. Thanks Gpeterse. The forum wants a url for the screenshot. Is there a best location to upload pictures so I can show you all a screenshot? This Timurid war is dragging on and while I have 40% of their territory this colonizing them is really expensive. I am thinking I might have to conquer them outright but it's like a snake eating a cow. Can I annex them if I take 100% of their territory? Also will hitting their capital be significant? I appreciate the advice.

[Serzis]

So I figured out screenshots to show you all what I am talking about. I did get Dizzy back via colonization. Thanks Gpeterse. The forum wants a url for the screenshot. Is there a best location to upload pictures so I can show you all a screenshot? This Timurid war is dragging on and while I have 40% of their territory this colonizing them is really expensive. I am thinking I might have to conquer them outright but it's like a snake eating a cow. Can I annex them if I take 100% of their territory? Also will hitting their capital be significant? I appreciate the advice.

A good place to upload pictures is imgur.com although there are -- naturally -- many, many places.

Colonizing Horde can be quite expensive, although you only need five colonist for every province (200 pop for each). Still, colonizing cost you no infamy (BB) so you can colonize Horde as a separate venture from conquering other countries for infamy. No matter how much of their land you occupy, the Horde will never give you any land by themselves. Occupying their capital is worth extra War Score and will reduce their prestige with 20 point, but nothing more. If you occupy all of their country however, they will not be able to build any more troops and you will only need to position comparatively few troops on their land to beat down rebels. The Timurids have a nasty habit of spawning 20 k patriot stacks in their occupied capital somethings.

I you really don't want to colonize, callapsing their country through extended war (preferably coinciding with their tribal succession crisis) will give rise to rebels representing the countries under Timurid rule, most importantly Persia and Baluchistan. If you check the provinces, you can see that there are cores that are not the Timurid one. If you play so these countries amerge, you can conquer these normally since they are not Horde. Still, I would suggest colonization.

Added: To put the 'Colonize Horde' system into perspective for you, one might point out that the system is a little more historically approprite when it depict Russia incorporating the Steppe (Golden Horde and beyond): These vast, sparsely populated regions upon the collapse of the Khanates could be conquered miles per day, limited by how fast the Russian settlers and administrators could gain de facto control over the region. Of course, this does not really reflect the situation in densely populated Mesopotamia, where the Horde collapsed from within with it's vassals asserting their independence.

[Edlar89]

imageshack.us is where I upload my images.

[Norlion]

Lets see if this works. If it did I have retaken Deir az-Zour via colonized as I said above. Colonization sounds expansive, but that is the next logical step. Of course I have to keep my inflation under control and my economy balanced....I know very funny.

[ByzCrusader]

Honestly, I would suggest NOT trying to take much more land from them. Most of the land you've already taken is quite poor and will only be a breeding ground for rebels and will drag your tech down. You should probably just occupy their land for a bit, then get tribute. That should make it so they aren't a threat for a good while and give you a chance to consolidate.

[Norlion]

I like the way you think! They keep asking for peace but they only want to give me 5 prestige. So I will wait for tribute.

[luitzen]

Or create a wall of vassals between them and you. When playing Mamluks you want to stay small, until you've westernised and reformed the government. Instead of taking territory, you better focus on making as much vassals as possible. When you hit your first tribal succession crisis, you'll know what I'm talking about. Now imagine a tribal succession crisis for a large empire during westernisation. You already have a high stability cost, plus penalty from being tribal, plus penalty from westernisation combined with low income from tax this puts you in a really awful situation. It might take you twenty years in order to regain your stability and 100 years to complete westernisation (including military modernisation and government reform).

[chals]

Or create a wall of vassals between them and you. When playing Mamluks you want to stay small, until you've westernised and reformed the government. Instead of taking territory, you better focus on making as much vassals as possible. When you hit your first tribal succession crisis, you'll know what I'm talking about. Now imagine a tribal succession crisis for a large empire during westernisation. You already have a high stability cost, plus penalty from being tribal, plus penalty from westernisation combined with low income from tax this puts you in a really awful situation. It might take you twenty years in order to regain your stability and 100 years to complete westernisation (including military modernisation and government reform).

Play MMu, its much faster :-)

[Iwanow]

Honestly, I would suggest NOT trying to take much more land from them. Most of the land you've already taken is quite poor and will only be a breeding ground for rebels and will drag your tech down. You should probably just occupy their land for a bit, then get tribute. That should make it so they aren't a threat for a good while and give you a chance to consolidate.

Well advice for anyone wanting tribute from hordes => if you want to get tribute, DO not wholy occupy them, and get as much as possible score from battles and ports blockaded, if you can occupy just only enough provinces to get 40 warscore. In this way, you will gain more income from the tribute, as tribute is dependant on monthly income, and occupying their provinces decreases it.

[Norlion]

So I made peace and I learn that Mamluk nobles kill their King when no war goes on for a year or two. I knocked down 2 sucessive revolts in a row with 2 stability losses. Then a random event causes a third stability loss. I quickly went to war with Castillian Libya to stop the revolts. Then the Timurids and Qara dude with 70k in combined troops. I eventually fought them off but ruinious inflation brought me to my economic knees. I still have the save game from this point as I need to stay at war just keep stable. Maybe this vassalation thing is the way to go. I'll try that next.

[Iwanow]

Well your problem is you have inferior goverment, so you should try to modernize it asap.