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Thread: What do you build, what do you reaserch and why?

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    What do you build, what do you reaserch and why?

    So I have restarted a campaign with my beloved Austria, raised all taxes to max and constructed forts in every region up to level 3. I'm in 1845-ish and I have taken southern Serbia, Albania and Hungary from the Ottomans. I got about 2 million in cash and even though I haven't built that many factories money keep poring in. My manpower is increasing and I feel mighty good about myself......but I have probably done noob mistakes.

    So my question is this, what do you build and in what order and what tech do you research and again in what order?

    so far my research as been : (ca) medicine>>all military army tech to level 2 (got defence/fort level 3) and now going for level 3. I haven't done much research in industry but why should I because I'm rich!

    So.......what do you all think?

  2. #2
    I always make liferating tech a priority, so I have a headstart in the colonisation of Africa. arounf 1865 I don't research anything and save up my research points to get machine guns instantly, giving me first dibs on African colonies.

    Before I can do any of that the prority is -> ideological thought -> medicine -> experimental railroad -> idealism.

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    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    You don't need all those forts, it's a massive mistake to invest in them while your people need education techs.

    First put NFs on Bureaucrats until you have enough of them for solid admin efficiency, then go all in for Clergy up to 4% so they can teach your people to read. You need Ideological Thought as your first tech to get another NF and the boost to plurality (which means a massive research boost), then Idealism, Medicine, maybe Early Railroad, and straight to Biologism in 1850 to maximize your education efficiency with Darwinism invention. Then you should look to get all the techs required to build Suez/Panama (1860) and to start colonization in 1870 (Rifles, Nationalism). When you have that covered, you can start looking at the basic output efficiency techs in the industrial and commercial trees, and start working to get the industry off the subsidies. When you get the slice of Africa you desired (I connect Somalia with Kongo/Ivory coast leaving the rest to AIs), you can go back home, build a million factories and keep influencing Craftsmen for the rest of the game.

    I wouldn't bother fighting much for the influence in Europe if you aren't planning to form Greater Germany, just make sure Prussians can't create Germany (I was happy to discover you can make them release Lithuania in Ostprussen and let it fall to Russian sphere to end all their attempt at formation, but holding Schleswig will work too). Don't forget to take Ghana away from Prussians. This should make Prussia a permanent punching bag for France and Russia while you keep developing your little empire. Influence in Asia (Japan, China, Persia) and in South America (Brazil, Peru, Chile, Colombia), then you can use your border with Ottomans to sphere them too, or keep going "free people" against them make a little mess in the Balkans.

    If you dealt with Prussia early, and if Americans are still somehow weakened by lower migrations of 2.31, you only have to plot the downfall of France and the UK to get #1#1#1. France is fairly easy, a timely intervention into a great war they are losing and you can beat all the living le merde out of them. Brits won't be that difficult either, you only need 500 modern ships and their armies to not be at home, occupy, wait for industry's shutdown and send them into a chain of revolts while your factories get their deserved first spot.

    I don't think it's possible to stay absolutist, give the people every reform they demand, especially unions, so later you can give them healthcare. And don't lose any opportunity to upset them, as high militancy is what encourages reform.
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    Second Lieutenant Dadvester's Avatar
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    Depends alot on which country you play, I'm not sure of austria's starting Lit. Rate but I'm assuming it's lowish. I always go for ideological thought, then if I'm playing a low Lit. Country get the education techs. I always time the research so the moment the next research point tech comes out I'm researching it. If you planning on wars then the miltary techs take priority, and if you want to colonise work towards the techs that lower life rating. I also prioritise commerce over industry so my industry is more competitive. Alot will depend on the country and your long term goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitchens View Post
    So I have restarted a campaign with my beloved Austria, raised all taxes to max and constructed forts in every region up to level 3. I'm in 1845-ish and I have taken southern Serbia, Albania and Hungary from the Ottomans. I got about 2 million in cash and even though I haven't built that many factories money keep poring in. My manpower is increasing and I feel mighty good about myself......but I have probably done noob mistakes.

    So my question is this, what do you build and in what order and what tech do you research and again in what order?

    so far my research as been : (ca) medicine>>all military army tech to level 2 (got defence/fort level 3) and now going for level 3. I haven't done much research in industry but why should I because I'm rich!

    So.......what do you all think?
    It seems you have decided to focus on war and conquering, but you would gain more if you conquer countries with same culture as you, like Bavaria and Wurttemberg. Conquering land from Ottomans which do not share your South German Culture will not be as beneficial to you, unless they produce some resources that you really need.
    What are you going to do with those £2 million? I guess you got it by raising your taxes and tariffs to max, but you seriously hampered growth and industrialization in your country by doing that, if you carry on with unreasonable taxes your country will remain a backward agricultural backwater while your rivals become industrial giants who will make a fortune of supplying your POPs and your army with their products because you cannot produce any of those yourself. Instead you should cut taxes to the minimum so that your capitalists invest in factories and railroads while your farmers, craftsmen and clerks have cash to spend on goods and allow your factories to make profits, which you then collect by taxing the capitalists. So the money you let the people keep always comes back to you as long as they don't have to buy anything from abroad. Ideally, you should first aim to produce all of your country's needs domestically so you will not have to import anything except for some cheap raw materials like cotton and timber.
    As for research, you need to start with cultural techs that will boost your research and literacy, the Biologism tech is especially good for that so get it when it becomes available in 1850.

  6. #6
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    I wouldn't bother with any military tech besides guns and medicine. Austria can beat any other country on the map with just the starting troops, if you go for very quick Greater Germany, you often have to march into France while still occupying Prussia and defend against whoever they are allied with...
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    You don't need all those forts, it's a massive mistake to invest in them while your people need education techs.

    First put NFs on Bureaucrats until you have enough of them for solid admin efficiency, then go all in for Clergy up to 4% so they can teach your people to read. You need Ideological Thought as your first tech to get another NF and the boost to plurality (which means a massive research boost), then Idealism, Medicine, maybe Early Railroad, and straight to Biologism in 1850 to maximize your education efficiency with Darwinism invention. Then you should look to get all the techs required to build Suez/Panama (1860) and to start colonization in 1870 (Rifles, Nationalism). When you have that covered, you can start looking at the basic output efficiency techs in the industrial and commercial trees, and start working to get the industry off the subsidies. When you get the slice of Africa you desired (I connect Somalia with Kongo/Ivory coast leaving the rest to AIs), you can go back home, build a million factories and keep influencing Craftsmen for the rest of the game.

    I wouldn't bother fighting much for the influence in Europe if you aren't planning to form Greater Germany, just make sure Prussians can't create Germany (I was happy to discover you can make them release Lithuania in Ostprussen and let it fall to Russian sphere to end all their attempt at formation, but holding Schleswig will work too). Don't forget to take Ghana away from Prussians. This should make Prussia a permanent punching bag for France and Russia while you keep developing your little empire. Influence in Asia (Japan, China, Persia) and in South America (Brazil, Peru, Chile, Colombia), then you can use your border with Ottomans to sphere them too, or keep going "free people" against them make a little mess in the Balkans.

    If you dealt with Prussia early, and if Americans are still somehow weakened by lower migrations of 2.31, you only have to plot the downfall of France and the UK to get #1#1#1. France is fairly easy, a timely intervention into a great war they are losing and you can beat all the living le merde out of them. Brits won't be that difficult either, you only need 500 modern ships and their armies to not be at home, occupy, wait for industry's shutdown and send them into a chain of revolts while your factories get their deserved first spot.

    I don't think it's possible to stay absolutist, give the people every reform they demand, especially unions, so later you can give them healthcare. And don't lose any opportunity to upset them, as high militancy is what encourages reform.
    Delra, can Austria form Greater Germany if Prussia is no longer a Great Power?
    For a war with UK there is no need for 500 warships, I once had a fleet of 300 cruisers and they cost me at least £20k per day to maintain in wartime. 100 cruisers and a few Dreadnoughts is normally more than enough because the UK AI usually scatters their modern ships around the world, sometimes they still keep hundreds of frigates after 1880 for some reason. I have seen the UK mobilize 800 brigades of peasants in England, so you will need at least 600 brigades to invade England.

  8. #8
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    Yes, Austria can form a massive Germany in 10 years, by taking Schleswig from Denmark, enforcing Hegemony on Prussia and reconquering Alsace-Lorraine. Then in the 2nd war your goal is to occupy them until they drop out of GP and then enforce "add to sphere" at the end of the war, and make Germany one day later. I find Austria's Germany easier to create than Prussia's, to be honest. Just ally with Russians, and hope they don't ally with the French as it gets annoying then.

    My last UK conquest was with China, so your brigade count doesn't seem like much. :-) Is tedious, but then again, you don't do it every day.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    Yes, Austria can form a massive Germany in 10 years, by taking Schleswig from Denmark, enforcing Hegemony on Prussia and reconquering Alsace-Lorraine. Then in the 2nd war your goal is to occupy them until they drop out of GP and then enforce "add to sphere" at the end of the war, and make Germany one day later. I find Austria's Germany easier to create than Prussia's, to be honest. Just ally with Russians, and hope they don't ally with the French as it gets annoying then.

    My last UK conquest was with China, so your brigade count doesn't seem like much. :-) Is tedious, but then again, you don't do it every day.
    Ok, so the same thing you do as North German Confederation except the other way around. I thought any German nation could do that except for Austria.
    Invading UK as China? You must have built at least 300 steam transports just for that I guess, or you conquered your way across Russia?
    By the way, as Austria why would you sphere China? Sphering Chinese Empire usually does more harm than good, it's ok to sphere it's smaller and less populated substates though. I also don't sphere Brazil or Peru until late game, as these tend build lots of automobile factories and you no longer get any rubber from them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    Yes, Austria can form a massive Germany in 10 years, by taking Schleswig from Denmark, enforcing Hegemony on Prussia and reconquering Alsace-Lorraine. Then in the 2nd war your goal is to occupy them until they drop out of GP and then enforce "add to sphere" at the end of the war, and make Germany one day later. I find Austria's Germany easier to create than Prussia's, to be honest.
    That can't be right, right? Usually I can form Greater Germany in 1842-43, if I get lucky when Austria is allied with France, then before 1840 too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulthebug View Post
    That can't be right, right? Usually I can form Greater Germany in 1842-43, if I get lucky when Austria is allied with France, then before 1840 too.
    How do you beat both France and Austria as Prussia so early in the game? Do you ally with Russia?

  12. #12
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    There's one way of beating everyone, let them die of attrition for a bit (no medicine early on works to your great advantage when stupid AI combines its armies), then provoke them into a major defensive battle where your general is clearly better than theirs, surround that battle and win it to have their army vanish. Repeat until they have no army and proceed to occupation. If France allies with Russia, it'll require more acrobatics (read: not calling certain minors to the war so Frenchies can't walk to the eastern part of your territory and you can hide to recuperate there), especially with fairly smaller Prussians. So to save the trouble, you should grab that alliance for yourself early on.

    To brag a bit :-p in the game which I posted in the old fastest Germany thread (http://i.imgur.com/Is1bv.jpg), I beat Denmark, Prussia, France, Russia, Spain, the UK and Ottomans (and all the plankton) before Three Hurrahs, as the web of alliances wasn't very favourable for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    There's one way of beating everyone, let them die of attrition for a bit (no medicine early on works to your great advantage when stupid AI combines its armies), then provoke them into a major defensive battle where your general is clearly better than theirs, surround that battle and win it to have their army vanish. Repeat until they have no army and proceed to occupation. If France allies with Russia, it'll require more acrobatics (read: not calling certain minors to the war so Frenchies can't walk to the eastern part of your territory and you can hide to recuperate there), especially with fairly smaller Prussians. So to save the trouble, you should grab that alliance for yourself early on.

    To brag a bit :-p in the game which I posted in the old fastest Germany thread (http://i.imgur.com/Is1bv.jpg), I beat Denmark, Prussia, France, Russia, Spain, the UK and Ottomans (and all the plankton) before Three Hurrahs, as the web of alliances wasn't very favourable for me.
    I always surround big battles if I have spare troops around and the enemy has no stacks in nearby provinces, though from my experience the AI does try to rescue surrounded armies by attacking surrounding troops, so you often have to be ready for a second big battle at the same time if your enemy has more troops elsewhere. The big disadvantage is that with Prussia early in the game you cannot get nearly as much brigades as France or Austria can. Mobilized peasants are not so good and are best just used for occupying enemy provinces and only used in combat when you really have to. Actually I rarely ever mobilize during wars, only if I am fighting a much superior enemy.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dron22 View Post
    How do you beat both France and Austria as Prussia so early in the game? Do you ally with Russia?
    As Prussia, you started out with Army Profession, which works wonder. Plus started out with many more brigades. But be careful on attrition though, many of them are in red.

    On day 1, send out alliance request to France, UK, Russia & Ottoman.
    Conclude the first war with Austria as early as possible, my best is 7 months, ask for hegemony (free) and humiliation (cheap) only.
    Immediately break alliance with France upon conclusion of first Prussia-Austria war. And pray that France allies Austria.
    If that happened, then Greater Germany pre-1840.
    Otherwise, gotta wait till 1842-43.
    I usually don't bother sphering Austria, because everyone will get a head start influencing them while Prussia is at truce.
    I also don't bother attacking Denmark. Wanna conserve the strength of my red brigades. Plus, can always attack them later why...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    You don't need all those forts, it's a massive mistake to invest in them while your people need education techs.
    what does building forts have to do with investing in education techs?????????
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  16. #16
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    It has if he's researching the first army tech instead of getting biologism.
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  17. #17
    Thanks for all the help guys. You are the best.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dron22 View Post
    It seems you have decided to focus on war and conquering, but you would gain more if you conquer countries with same culture as you, like Bavaria and Wurttemberg. Conquering land from Ottomans which do not share your South German Culture will not be as beneficial to you, unless they produce some resources that you really need
    Hi.

    I almost never get border friction with Bavaria or any of the other city states. When it comes to the Ottomans I get those more often. So if I would want to form Germany I would have to justify a war and gain maybe what....2 provinces at the cost of 20+ infamy. So to me expanding into the Balkans and so on seemed like a better idea.

    I got the sick man of Europe event the last time and that was nice.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitchens View Post
    Thanks for all the help guys. You are the best.




    Hi.

    I almost never get border friction with Bavaria or any of the other city states. When it comes to the Ottomans I get those more often. So if I would want to form Germany I would have to justify a war and gain maybe what....2 provinces at the cost of 20+ infamy. So to me expanding into the Balkans and so on seemed like a better idea.

    I got the sick man of Europe event the last time and that was nice.
    I think you those border friction events will happen if your relations are bad, so get them down to -200 with Bavaria and you should get these events. You start with Bavaria in your sphere, so you can let the Prussians remove Bavaria from your sphere, but don't let them take it into theirs if you don't want to fight Prussia at the same time.
    And what is the sick man of Europe event? I never had it. Is it an event to do with the historical decline of the Ottoman Empire?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dron22 View Post
    I think you those border friction events will happen if your relations are bad, so get them down to -200 with Bavaria and you should get these events. You start with Bavaria in your sphere, so you can let the Prussians remove Bavaria from your sphere, but don't let them take it into theirs if you don't want to fight Prussia at the same time.
    And what is the sick man of Europe event? I never had it. Is it an event to do with the historical decline of the Ottoman Empire?

    Interesting, will try!

    Yes indeed. Russia declared war on the Ottomans when I was nearing the completion of a successful conquest of the Balkans. The pop up mentioned the inevitable decline of the Orttomans and how they were inferior etc. Not long after I had to chose to allow the Russians to gain influence over the Christians in south-eastern Europe as the tzar proclaimed himself as the protector of all the orthodox believers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitchens View Post
    Interesting, will try!

    Yes indeed. Russia declared war on the Ottomans when I was nearing the completion of a successful conquest of the Balkans. The pop up mentioned the inevitable decline of the Orttomans and how they were inferior etc. Not long after I had to chose to allow the Russians to gain influence over the Christians in south-eastern Europe as the tzar proclaimed himself as the protector of all the orthodox believers.
    Do you have a mod? I've never heard of that event before...

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