Holland strategy?

Nerga said:

I actually like Brabant more than Holland for forming Netherlands. You have some advantages, namely that you don't start in a PU, have 3 provinces, and get female rulers so you don't get become emperor missions. My general strategy is too get early vassals, and hopefully a PU. If you can get 2-3 vassals and some allies, even opms, you can beat Burgundy. Especially if you can deny them Hainaut, Liege, and Luxemburg, as they aren't that strong day 1. For Burgundy, when they come at you, get maybe 14 soldiers, and mint to go over your limits, get a general. Let their armies siege your province, and after they go to assault your provinces you move in and take out their armies. I then siege them with the help of your vassals and hopefully take Antwerp for your troubles. To form Netherlands PUs are best. As soon as Holland breaks their PU you PU them, then try to PU friesland and Gelre.

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Oh, I just liked this post. Playing Brabant you will get the Flanders culture provinces within the Netherlands, which is just nice. Not sure though what to do with the Wallonians but often it's France who removes the problem completely.

The major drawback to playing as Brabant is that Burgundy has that damned "Conquer Brabant" mission. If Burgundy attacks on day one, you don't have time to get to 14K to repel them. If they don't, they're usually attacking with 25+K. Either way, it's really difficult to top them. Your best bets for early allies are either getting lucky and bagging someone big (Bohemia, France, Austria) or allying with as many of the other Burgundian scripted conquest victims (Liege, Luxembourg, Hainaut) as possible as quickly as possible. I'd even say that if you can't get them then you might as well surrender and start over.

Holland is the most popular pick for a reason here. Aside from fluky "Remove X from the map / Subjugate X / Conquer X" missions you're safe from Burgundy as long as you cancel the alliance with Hainaut on day one. Then you take advantage of your massively pro-free-market setup and trade everywhere, convert your huge income flows into tech and infrastructure, and set yourself up to expand in the New World - all the while monitoring the Emperor, Burgundy, France, Utrecht and Friesland for your big moment. You'll get your chance in the sun in Europe. If you shake off the PU in 1404 and Claims On Our Rivals! fires in 1405, roll with it. If you don't get automatic cores for 40+ years, roll with that as well. No one wants your starting land. Just relax.

Not trying to be THAT guy, but what difficulty setting do yall play on. Everyone is so afraid of france and burgundy in this post. they're not that hard to beat

Never been able to beat down france at the beginning of the game as England
Same for Burgundy and holland.

Unless I skyrocket Land tech and have maurician inf. that is That its completely different game.
Meybe thats why I prefer to colonize and or conquer asia more than conquest in europe.

ATBKING said:

Not trying to be THAT guy, but what difficulty setting do yall play on. Everyone is so afraid of france and burgundy in this post. they're not that hard to beat

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Usually on Hard difficulty. And yes, they are that hard to beat as a Lowlander country. Even a developed Netherlands is going to be at a 2:1 or more disadvantage numerically vis-a-vis France, and you get a similar disadvantage as a less developed Holland/Brabant/etc. vs Burgundy. Obviously it's by no means impossible, but the concerns raised in the thread are completely legitimate.

On hard beeing 30y in advance in tech still doable? Or substantial expansion is first needed?

As Holland, it's still doable. It won't happen in the first 30-40 years like it seems to happen on normal and below, but you're still the richest, most economically prudent, and arguably most progressive and innovative state in the world. Smart expansion definitely helps though.