Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Holland strategy?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Europa Universalis III 46143 EU3 - After Action Reports (AAR)
Show only dev responses
maxirage

maxirage

Lt. General
11 Badges
Apr 5, 2012
1.659
2.468
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Lately I've playing a lot of Holland and been finding it very fun, but I'm still trying to find a fast and reliable strategy to form the Netherlands. I've found only one so far but I'm sure there's better options.

My strategy:
Dissolve the alliance with Hainut and immediately build as large an army as possible. Attack Hainut and assault the province. With a large enough force you can occupy it before Bohemia's troops reach you, and because they don't become war leader you just need to end the war to be home free. But before ending the war you can declare two CB-less wars against Utretch and Friesland, and vassalize them. Later you can use the "incorporate x into our country" missions to diploannex and get cores, and form the Netherlands within 20-30 years.

Anyone know anything better?
 
maxirage said:
Lately I've playing a lot of Holland and been finding it very fun, but I'm still trying to find a fast and reliable strategy to form the Netherlands. I've found only one so far but I'm sure there's better options.

My strategy:
Dissolve the alliance with Hainut and immediately build as large an army as possible. Attack Hainut and assault the province. With a large enough force you can occupy it before Bohemia's troops reach you, and because they don't become war leader you just need to end the war to be home free. But before ending the war you can declare two CB-less wars against Utretch and Friesland, and vassalize them. Later you can use the "incorporate x into our country" missions to diploannex and get cores, and form the Netherlands within 20-30 years.

Anyone know anything better?
Click to expand...
I'd probably not want to DoW on Utretch and Friesland w/o CB. Try to PU Gelre and Friesland. As for Utretch, you can try to join wars against it so that you don't need to eat the stab hits and BB.
 
ywhtptgtfo said:
I'd probably not want to DoW on Utretch and Friesland w/o CB. Try to PU Gelre and Friesland. As for Utretch, you can try to join wars against it so that you don't need to eat the stab hits and BB.
Click to expand...

That's not reliable, as far as I've seen. You could be sitting there for decades until Utretch goes to a war with a country you can ally, or decades more waiting for Friesland to be inherited. Vassalizing both with no CB will cost 12 infamy, but it's not like you have anything else to burn it on while waiting to diploannex them.
 
maxirage said:
That's not reliable, as far as I've seen. You could be sitting there for decades until Utretch goes to a war with a country you can ally, or decades more waiting for Friesland to be inherited. Vassalizing both with no CB will cost 12 infamy, but it's not like you have anything else to burn it on while waiting to diploannex them.
Click to expand...
Trade. Also, unlawful territory unless you plan to leave HRE.
 
maxirage said:
That's not reliable, as far as I've seen. You could be sitting there for decades until Utretch goes to a war with a country you can ally, or decades more waiting for Friesland to be inherited. Vassalizing both with no CB will cost 12 infamy, but it's not like you have anything else to burn it on while waiting to diploannex them.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't PU Gelre until I was strong enough to hold it (Burgundy has a core)


Anyhow, I would recommend getting quest for the new world asap, and then start conquering key places for future colonization. In the early game try to perhaps Subjugate the muslims/Russia etc, Ottoman lands are good lands to have.
Trading will be your strong suit anyhow, large colonial empire and mercantilistic is my favorite.
 
Slym said:
If you want to play mercantilisic, why would you start with Holland?
Click to expand...

It's better if one has a large colonial empire? (and the more important cots that is)

I never said I wanted to be just mercantilistic.
 
My strategy in my first game as Holland -> Netherlands (formed in 1450) was just to go to have two different wars without CB's with Utrecht and Friesland and vassalize them. My army was way over the force limits though, in order to scare Burgundy out. Trade suffered for a while also. After that, waiting for missions to dipploannex them with cores took a while. Unlawful territory is then not a problem, and you get the needed cores much faster.

In my case both were allied with some HRE minors, and of course, the emperor intervened, but I was able to peace out (white peace or concession of defeat) by then, through occupying enough minors. Dissolving your alliance with Hainaut and spamming insults at them is of course the first step, but I didn't know you could attack them when under a PU. Of course, in my game Burgundy went to war with Hainaut in the first few months, and my big problem was that I had also vassalized Gelre in the process (not sure why, maybe a mission?) which Burgundy coveted. I was doing my best to keep on Burgundy's good side, while Gelre was baiting Burgundy.
 
I'm sure this can work well, though a little risky. I prefer less gamey tactics, and tactics that don't involves the risk of me losing the game after a short while making me need to restart. To me that's not good strategy, just a gamey tactic that works 50% of the games, or run my country on the scrapyard. I'd call it hazard rather then strategy.

I always wait for the PU to end by itself. Meanwhile I trade as much as possble, save up money, and build all I can in my provinces, also investing as much as possible in culture to get usefull 5-6 advisors up asap. With only 2 provinces and a shitload of tradeincome your research will reach the sky in no time.

At trade tech 7 I change my first national idea to QFTNW (A little gamey perhaps, so I often prefer to wait until Gov. tech 9) Then its colonize, colonize, colonize, and trying to avoid european conflicts. If there comes up a chance to attack my dutch neigbours with little risk, or to diploannex them, I take it, but I'm very patient for the right moment to strike.
 
Last edited:
I actually like Brabant more than Holland for forming Netherlands. You have some advantages, namely that you don't start in a PU, have 3 provinces, and get female rulers so you don't get become emperor missions. My general strategy is too get early vassals, and hopefully a PU. If you can get 2-3 vassals and some allies, even opms, you can beat Burgundy. Especially if you can deny them Hainaut, Liege, and Luxemburg, as they aren't that strong day 1. For Burgundy, when they come at you, get maybe 14 soldiers, and mint to go over your limits, get a general. Let their armies siege your province, and after they go to assault your provinces you move in and take out their armies. I then siege them with the help of your vassals and hopefully take Antwerp for your troubles. To form Netherlands PUs are best. As soon as Holland breaks their PU you PU them, then try to PU friesland and Gelre.
 
And going mercantilistic in a single player game as Holland is better? Mercantilism isn't even good in singleplayer at all unless you plan to have BB for the entire game, much less when you start with +4 free trade.

Subjugating Russia and "the muslims"? What the hell are you talking about? Holland has absolutely no manpower and force limits to do anything of that sort unless you are only going for very small nations.

Your posts are so dumb to the point that I feel that you're just trying to cause problems with all of them.
 
I'm doing fairly well in my latest Holland game. Formed Netherlands, expanded to 13 provinces, became holy Roman emperor, and did some colonizing by 1450. By a stroke of luck I am now leading a personal union with France, which is difficult to maintain. I had to be in war near-constantly and expand as much as I could to keep an army anywhere near France's.

Now there's a problem: how to expand in the mid-early game? Because you are a trading nation you can't spare the infamy to annex everything, and because you're moderately-sized don't get the "incorporate x into our country" missions reliably anymore. Not to mention revolt risk is a problem due to your sliders being beyond the limits -- the optimal way to escape that is to switch to imperial government, but that requires a staggering 30 provinces.

In a previous game I ignored European expansion and focused on colonization. But then the reformation hit and my former allies of France + Castille DoWd me and I didn't stand a chance against them.
 
anubisfike said:
And going mercantilistic in a single player game as Holland is better? Mercantilism isn't even good in singleplayer at all unless you plan to have BB for the entire game, much less when you start with +4 free trade.
Click to expand...
It's worth it to go mercantilism if you plan to go on a war path and take non-core CoT's, but I wouldn't make the slider changes until Centeralization, Free Subject, Land/Naval, and Narrowminded are maxed (that means it'd be well into mid/late game).

Subjugating Russia and "the muslims"? What the hell are you talking about? Holland has absolutely no manpower and force limits to do anything of that sort unless you are only going for very small nations.
Click to expand...
Russia is definitely not something to prioritize. Turkey is a viable move in SP if you can time your invasion right (i.e. in the middle of an OE dogpile by Catholics). However, the purpose of playing Holland is usually about colonization, so that defeats the point.

Your posts are so dumb to the point that I feel that you're just trying to cause problems with all of them.
Click to expand...
This young college chap probably meant what he wrote.
 
anubisfike said:
And going mercantilistic in a single player game as Holland is better? Mercantilism isn't even good in singleplayer at all unless you plan to have BB for the entire game, much less when you start with +4 free trade.

Subjugating Russia and "the muslims"? What the hell are you talking about? Holland has absolutely no manpower and force limits to do anything of that sort unless you are only going for very small nations.

Your posts are so dumb to the point that I feel that you're just trying to cause problems with all of them.
Click to expand...

If one has a large colonial empire (which I wrote was key), mercantilism is pretty smart actually

And just because you can't conquer as Holland doesn't mean other people can't. It's very simple to start by taking Ottoman lands etc, and then just grow forces as country grows. But I like vassalizing Novgorod and then feed it other provs so it will form Russia, nice ally to have and then take on GH and feed it russian cores, and then just keep the southern uncored provs.

And it's nice that you can call what I say dumb and then offer 0 advice yourself.
 
ywhtptgtfo said:
It's worth it to go mercantilism if you plan to go on a war path and take non-core CoT's, but I wouldn't make the slider changes until Centeralization, Free Subject, Land/Naval, and Narrowminded are maxed (that means it'd be well into mid/late game).
Click to expand...

anubisfike said:
unless you plan to have BB for the entire game
Click to expand...

ywhtptgtfo said:
Russia is definitely not something to prioritize. Turkey is a viable move in SP if you can time your invasion right (i.e. in the middle of an OE dogpile by Catholics). However, the purpose of playing Holland is usually about colonization, so that defeats the point.
Click to expand...

I still don't see how a Holland with 2 provs can manage any kind of invasion of a country as large as the ottomans without extensive reloads, even if they are preoccupied with other wars all it takes is one stray stack to find its way to you and your army is now completely annihilated and you can make white peace at best.

Chronicler said:
If one has a large colonial empire (which I wrote was key), mercantilism is pretty smart actually
Click to expand...

Why? How? You don't take massive BB as Holland and trading everywhere in the entire world is better than only in your own cot and at most two-three others even if you can monopolize your own cots.

Chronicler said:
And just because you can't conquer as Holland doesn't mean other people can't. It's very simple to start by taking Ottoman lands etc, and then just grow forces as country grows. But I like vassalizing Novgorod and then feed it other provs so it will form Russia, nice ally to have and then take on GH and feed it russian cores, and then just keep the southern uncored provs.
Click to expand...

I am being realistic, there is no way that a two province Holland in 1420> (since you say you want to colonize) can do anything to even scratch a larger power, much less vassalize them, unless you are playing with cheats.

Chronicler said:
And it's nice that you can call what I say dumb and then offer 0 advice yourself.
Click to expand...

As opposed to giving horrible advice.
 
anubisfike said:
I still don't see how a Holland with 2 provs can manage any kind of invasion of a country as large as the ottomans without extensive reloads, even if they are preoccupied with other wars all it takes is one stray stack to find its way to you and your army is now completely annihilated and you can make white peace at best.
Click to expand...
Hmm... the question is not about whether or not the invasion would work but rather how many provinces you can steal before others get it.

The vanilla OE is quite fragile and will often get destroyed by the combined power of the hordes and a few Catholic powers. If you are referring to the D&T Ottoman, then that's indeed a different story but I don't think we are talking about that.
 
anubisfike said:
I still don't see how a Holland with 2 provs can manage any kind of invasion of a country as large as the ottomans without extensive reloads, even if they are preoccupied with other wars all it takes is one stray stack to find its way to you and your army is now completely annihilated and you can make white peace at best.



Why? How? You don't take massive BB as Holland and trading everywhere in the entire world is better than only in your own cot and at most two-three others even if you can monopolize your own cots.



I am being realistic, there is no way that a two province Holland in 1420> (since you say you want to colonize) can do anything to even scratch a larger power, much less vassalize them, unless you are playing with cheats.



As opposed to giving horrible advice.
Click to expand...

anubisfike:

1. Well, I managed such invasions, so did others probably. And I don't play with cheats/mods/reloads whatever. I do play with great skill though.

2. Why would I just trade in my cot? I would conquer cots? Zanzibar, Malacca, Kutch etc. And why would it cost me much BB? Could release stuff like Syria for bb reduction.

3. Well, in one of my later games I took Byzantium in one war, then right away blocked the strait with my fleet and declared war on Ottomans (ottomans forces together with bosnia and serbia was fighting timurids)
Then I easily won, (think I had 5k troops this particular time), and I had them force release Smyrna, Bulgaria and Antalya (I also had separate wars with Bosnia and Serbia whom I annexed and then released again.)
Good start for any complete conquest of the Ottoman lands.
 
Why would you take Ottoman land anyway? It's different culture, different religion, difficult to transport troops to, takes up precious manpower to defend, and doesn't give you much in return. If you take Jerusalem you at least get the prestige and missionary bonuses, which are very useful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back