Prince Bishops, Lord Mayors or Counts

[AddMinus]

I just completed the conquest of Hungary and now have a demesne of 87 holdings. I was going to do my usual and make a whole lot of counts to administer my new lands but recently I realised you can appoint Lord Mayors or Prince Bishops instead. I was thinking it would be a huge tax bonus to have Lord Mayors but they might rebel too much, or I could go with a smaller tax bonus and less rebelious Prince bishops.

I can't really decide what is best. Does anyone choose to make Lord Mayors across a whole kingdom like this or is it best just to appoint Counts?

On a side note, Hungary had some lands in Georgia that I don't want does anyone know a good way to get rid of these lands?

Thanks.

[blackfire83]

I really like Prince-Bishops. They're almost perpetually happy, give you nice amounts of troops, and you get Piety when you first grant them.

That said, coastal Lord Mayors make a HUGE amount of cash. I try to have a couple of them and use some Honorary Titles to keep them happy.

[knppel]

Lord Mayors/Doges bring most money, but least levies, while Prince-(arch)Bishops almost never trouble their liege (if he by time tells them to stop to plot for elective monarchy).
Additionaly to that you get piety for land you grant to the church (so, every appointed bishop gives you piety, and appointing a Bishop Prince (Arch)bishop will give you even more).

So if your leader has piety issues, this is the opportunity to solve it. Otherwise select Counts if you want to build a strong army in Hungary and Lord Mayors if you want to squeeze money out of it.

[blackfire83]

One thing I've noticed with giving away former Infidel Lands... Counts and Bishops tend to stay as your home culture, and therefore give you a chance to convert that province to your culture. Doges will start as your culture, and have a great chance to change the province to your culture (due to their high stewardship), however, the next elected Doge may very well be of a foreign culture, thus halting your efforts to change culture.

[Diet of Worms]

I like to have a couple of duchies under Doges (duke level mayors) for the income. Some people advocate much more than that, but personally I find them a pain to control with that -30 modifier and their elective system that can lead to really contrary people holding office. The income is really really good however.

My ideal Doge duchy is 5 provinces, coastal, and taken in a holy war. Basically it is Sicily. Take all the holdings in a holy war, assign lord mayors to three of the provinces, give two of them an extra county (the city title obviously) each (with Sicily, leave Malta as the singleton since it is the poorest province), and make one of the two province lord mayors the Doge.

You get most money from a direct vassal, so the Doge having two personal cities gives you good income, but with only one guy to keep happy. If you get a rebel Doge you can revoke his Doge title and give it to the other two province lord mayor with no penalty (this is why I don't just give all the provinces directly to the Doge - he is basically untouchable), and the extra province means that the non-Doge two province lord mayor cannot usurp the Doge title.

As time goes on the AI should build more cities and keep them in their demesne, or you can build them for him and give them to him.

[Blastaz]

Give one Doge all the cities in his duchy and watch your income soar. I quite want to do a norman england game where I keep 9 provinces for myself, without creating the duchies for them, and give the rest of the country away to Doges.

[blackfire83]

I think what's most worrisome is that Bishophrics and Republics seem better than Dukedoms. I honestly can't think of a reason other than for my own personal demesne to keep things feudal.

[Valinn]

I think what's most worrisome is that Bishophrics and Republics seem better than Dukedoms. I honestly can't think of a reason other than for my own personal demesne to keep things feudal.

1. Dynasty Prestige (presuming you award titles to your dynasty).

2. Culture Change (you can control the education of your vassals ensuring high stewardship rulers of your culture).

3. Claims (your vassals will marry into new claims for you, and you can enforce sub-vassal claims if they're of your dynasty without them going independent).

4. Less Revoking (when you take a new county it's probably already feudal. Changing it means revoking another holding and angering your vassals).

5. Richer Castles (feudal lords receive taxes from cities and bishops in their counties and invest some of it into building up their castles, while barons without vassals are dirt poor and can't).

[Habraka]

I always use Prince-Bishoprics and Prince-Archbishoprics, they are far easier to handle than Counts and Dukes, with Free Investiture, which gives you a +30 relation bonus, you can choose their successors (for example guys from your culture and with the Content trait), you get piety for assigning land to them, you can get the Crusader trait which gives you +25 relation, +50 if you are both Crusader, you get +50 relation boost for having Paragon of Virtue (the ambition which gives you 'the Holy' nickname), etc...

[grisamentum]

5. Richer Castles (feudal lords receive taxes from cities and bishops in their counties and invest some of it into building up their castles, while barons without vassals are dirt poor and can't).

Yeah I noticed this too. I try to build their first Castle Village for them when I still have it but it doesn't seem to help too much. You can always gift money directly to the baron but it's a pain in the ass. I haven't noticed if Lord Mayors/Doges will build buildings for their baron vassals.

[Philo32b]

One thing I've noticed with giving away former Infidel Lands... Counts and Bishops tend to stay as your home culture, and therefore give you a chance to convert that province to your culture. Doges will start as your culture, and have a great chance to change the province to your culture (due to their high stewardship), however, the next elected Doge may very well be of a foreign culture, thus halting your efforts to change culture.

I've seen this, too. It has something to do with cities being generally open elective--anyone in the court can succeed. And nobles of the same culture/religious type as the local population must keep showing up in court. (Although I thought the random nobles thrown at you were keyed in to the liege's culture and religion.)

[Ambigore]

My personal preference is lord mayors if I'm playing a small to medium-size kingdom. Either that or bishoprics. I hate counts/dukes since they can inter-marry, grow or leave your kingdom through inheritance etc.