Unity spell disgust

[LTK]

I think there should be pop up whenever a player start to cast Unity. It is a spell that will control all magic, after all. Each Great Mage must feel its power even from a far.

That's... exactly what happens in the game. Really.

[esvath]

That's... exactly what happens in the game. Really.

Really? I must be missing that. I constantly check the diplomatic screen once in several turns in late game, to make sure that no other Great Mage is casting Unity

[Corran109]

The announcer says something like "My lord, a rival is attempting to cast the Unity spell." with a circle on the right that shows the unity spell in it.

[The Apprentice]

In my last game, for instance, I created a custom wizard with 30 perk pick points. Not because it's fair or a special challenge. Just because I wanted to. And it being a single player game, I didn't have to ask anyone if that was okay with them...

How did you do this? I'd like to play a mage who needs 11 perk points... Could you explain?

[LTK]

Careful. Paradox doesn't take kindly to people discussing how to, let's say, 'tweak' the game to your preferences. At least not on their own forums.

[Gazz2]

Oh, I didn't plan to elaborate.
They prevented the simple / obvious ways to do that and that's an indication that they couldn't care less about players who just want to goof around.
It's either their way or the wrong way. Fine, I can live with that.

That's a simple philosophical disagreement because I bought the game and now I don't think I'm "using it the wrong way". *shrug*


By now I'm just used to modding the bits and pieces I don't... agree with. Like the nonexistent 3rd person car driving in Dead Island. Such a feature was never intended for the game but that didn't bother me a great deal. I just fixed it so it was "right" for me. I play it single-player exclusively so I cannot see how that is anyone else's concern.

[The Apprentice]

Careful. Paradox doesn't take kindly to people discussing how to, let's say, 'tweak' the game to your preferences. At least not on their own forums.

Well, I don't have a lot of experience with other Paradox titles (just the two in the side panel, I believe). But the Paradox CEO said he was "always positive to allow modding in [their] games." In the same thread, Alexy (Ino-Co Dev) said it was a matter of releasing their tools to facilitate modding. I presume packaging them, obtaining the ok for any licensed software contained within, ensuring they don't melt your computer, etc. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...why-not./page2)

None of which suggests that Paradox is opposed/going to lock/ban discussions of user modifications that don't rely upon Ino-Co's tools.

And players could maybe pre-emptively tweak victory conditions. Like Unity. So, are people still opposed to elaborating?

[Annex]

Yes you can counterspell Unity, but in the game im playing right now (max world size, max AIs etc), the Unity spell gets cast every turn by someone, sometimes by multiple AIs at the same time. Being able to do nothing but cast counterspell each and every turn is extremely annoying

[kirkpp]

Agree that it's desirable to have victory conditions be configurable.

On earlier replies re making Unity non-counterable - a better option might be to allow putting in extra mana to resist counter. I think I've seen this implemented (in MoM?) - works great.

[player1 fanatic]

Well, I don't have a lot of experience with other Paradox titles (just the two in the side panel, I believe). But the Paradox CEO said he was "always positive to allow modding in [their] games." In the same thread, Alexy (Ino-Co Dev) said it was a matter of releasing their tools to facilitate modding. I presume packaging them, obtaining the ok for any licensed software contained within, ensuring they don't melt your computer, etc. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...why-not./page2)

None of which suggests that Paradox is opposed/going to lock/ban discussions of user modifications that don't rely upon Ino-Co's tools.

Well, they did delete (not lock, but delete), thread where one guy made tool for unpacking their pack files, which made it possible to look at game resources. And quickly closed any other threads related to it.

Their reasoning was that this is somehow as bad as cracking the game, which is in my humble opinion a really bad stance for company on fan made modding. Many other games got modding tools in just exactly same way and companies never complained but embraced community interest in modding.

I'm kinda baffled but Paradox and Inno-Co reaction here.

Still, these are their forums and their rules. They can do what they want, and players should probably discuss any kind of "illegal" modding somewhere else.

[2Coats]

As the game was not released with "modding" i.e. the legal modification of game elements in mind, that is why any and all discussion is not permitted for Warlock.
However as already stated the Paradox and InoCo are looking into the matter and we should all wait to see what announcements are made regarding the subject.

As for the Unity spell... there is an alert, cant recall there being any alerts for the other victory types. If there aren't then I would like to see alerts for Archon (holy sites) and defeating a Gods Avatar....

Getting near to a total conquest victory probably doesnt need an alert for the player!

[brifbates]

Well, they did delete (not lock, but delete), thread where one guy made tool for unpacking their pack files, which made it possible to look at game resources. And quickly closed any other threads related to it.

Their reasoning was that this is somehow as bad as cracking the game, which is in my humble opinion a really bad stance for company on fan made modding. Many other games got modding tools in just exactly same way and companies never complained but embraced community interest in modding.

I'm kinda baffled but Paradox and Inno-Co reaction here.

Still, these are their forums and their rules. They can do what they want, and players should probably discuss any kind of "illegal" modding somewhere else.

The difference being using provided modding tools doesn't violate the EULA/ToS while using third party software to unpack/hack/reverse engineer the files does.

Since they probably have licensed some aspects of the game engine from other providers they have an obligation to protect the acquired rights as well as their own when deciding what behaviors to allow. It may well be a "conservative" approach to the issue but it is certainly understandable.

[Grubnessul]

Yes you can counterspell Unity, but in the game im playing right now (max world size, max AIs etc), the Unity spell gets cast every turn by someone, sometimes by multiple AIs at the same time. Being able to do nothing but cast counterspell each and every turn is extremely annoying

How does the AI has such a massive mana reserve? IIRC Unity costs 5k mana.

[jk_bonn]

How does the AI has such a massive mana reserve? IIRC Unity costs 5k mana.

Because it's cheating, thought everybody know this.

[Grubnessul]

Weird. In my game on normal one AI attempted it once. I assumed the rest never got the amount of mana to try.

[The Apprentice]

Given the number of patches since release, the type of boost the AI gets could have changed. Early on I saw two successive Unity casts from a weak AI- no way it had 10k mana under the rules I was playing with. Recently no AI has attempted to cast Unity (Impossible and Challenging games). Maybe the AI is given a large bonus pool at the start of the game relative to the player- say 5k mana and 5k gold? It would explain how a resource and city poor AI could fire shadowbolts and firestorms repeatedly in the early game.

For example, in my game under the most recent patch I got a 500ish mana inducement to sign a NAP on turn 24? Sub 40, certainly. The AI had no mana producing structures aside from a Mana Tap at the capital (its sole city). Until a dev or file diver chimes in, I don't think we have enough info to be sure what the AI bonuses are.

[LTK]

We can at least take a guess. When you try to trade with an AI, you can only ask so much resources as the AI currently possesses. In my most recent game, 200 turns in, Miralbus has nothing whatsoever, Anna has 9 gold and 4580 mana, Rjakh has 98 gold and 9808 mana, and Tendral has 211 gold and 944 mana.

[Leatherneck]

Given the number of patches since release, the type of boost the AI gets could have changed. Early on I saw two successive Unity casts from a weak AI- no way it had 10k mana under the rules I was playing with. Recently no AI has attempted to cast Unity (Impossible and Challenging games). Maybe the AI is given a large bonus pool at the start of the game relative to the player- say 5k mana and 5k gold? It would explain how a resource and city poor AI could fire shadowbolts and firestorms repeatedly in the early game.

For example, in my game under the most recent patch I got a 500ish mana inducement to sign a NAP on turn 24? Sub 40, certainly. The AI had no mana producing structures aside from a Mana Tap at the capital (its sole city). Until a dev or file diver chimes in, I don't think we have enough info to be sure what the AI bonuses are.

I would have to say the best way to check if the AI is cheating is to use the diplomacy exploit to check their resources at various points in the game, ideally at the beginning of the game and, a turn right before they cast Unity. From my checks, I have never seen an AI have 5K Mana, or anything over 800 (Most I have gotten was 736).

[The Apprentice]

Bah. You and your logical response.

The AI could also be getting spell discounts or be able to cast certain spells for free (like Unity at turn X). The trading method would be able to expose that- I'll see if they AI is willing to talk next time they are about to cast Unity.

Edit: Both of you!

[raw]

As to the difficulty of scouting (even on Huge Impossible Maps)- as long as you make scouting a priority, it shouldn't be a problem.

I already know that it's silly.