-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
hope we keep your attention, with the different outcome in Saxony, the result was a game with rather different dynamics to usual
"Cold, mouldering in the clay": January 1757
The main focus of us both in January 1757 was the fate of the Saxons. I wanted, at the least, to secure the supply wagons and guns, Narwhal just wanted to kill them all.
One thing I did a lot of in this game was to set the Austrians up in a network of supporting corps rather than as a single clump (although I did that too at times). My logic was over time I could constrict Narwhal's operational space (he would have to make wider marches to get in behind me) and that at the worst, one corps or the other would be mauled in the first phase of a battle before the others arrived.
This was the first test of that, using Daun and von Bilberstein in tandem, but with the latter able to cover Prag as well. Since a direct attack on the city would still be in winter, over a river and at two entrenched formations, this is not too big a risk with Prag, It was, however, a big risk with Daun.
My logic was that the Prussians woudl try to take out Karlsbad and possibly Eger as well as try to block the escape. My hope was I wouldn't run into a too powerful a force, equally although Daun was ordered to Brux, my hope was he wouldn't reach and stay there.
In the event, the turn resolution was scary. A very large Prussian force moved west to Karlsbad
Wiped out the fixed garrison (it is unfortified), fortunately the damaged Saxon brigade that was resting there had moved south to safer places before they arrived.
More importantly, Moritz's Prussian cavalry deployed to Brux. Now Daun had fairly weak orders (I didn't want to attack outnumbered over a river with commitment in case a large force was there). In the battle I did a lot of damage to the cavalry in the first phase, and was then driven off when the bulk of Keith's army marched to the sounds of the guns.
Unfortunately the Saxons arrived too late and had to fight there own way out. Oddly trading all those damaged Saxon elements for a couple more Prussian cavalry is no bad deal. I also was incredibly lucky with the retreat route, they lept the Prussians and joined Daun and Von Bilberstein at Laun.
(situation after the battles)
(shows impact on the various forces, Rutowski was wounded in the battle so is not shown as commanding the remnants of the Saxons)
Other bonuses from the action was a very useful promotion, this gave me 4 corps in and around Prag and the ability to send the less good leaders back to Wien to organise all the reinforcements that pile up over the winter.
Its about this stage, that a number of important events fire, bringing France and Russia to the war (they stay inactive for a while) and replacing Browne with Charles. I then buzz Charles back to Wien (to organise the new stuff) and put Daun in charge of the army at Prag.
The outcome of wrecking Moritz and, so far, no brutal defensive battles (which I lose but hold my ground) is that my national morale is very high
Its not too important in Rise of Prussia, but it does have an effect on the combat performance of your armies.
One thing I did a lot of in this game was to raise a number of depot battalions for the HRE, Bavarian and Wurtemburg forces. You can do this before they unlock so they are in a better shaper than I usually have them. In this game, with Rutowski available, I can actually organise that large army that unlocks at Nuremburg to some effect. Normally I concentrate on the Austrians, but then often by this stage I have a lot of losses to recover.
The main focus of us both in January 1757 was the fate of the Saxons. I wanted, at the least, to secure the supply wagons and guns, Narwhal just wanted to kill them all.
One thing I did a lot of in this game was to set the Austrians up in a network of supporting corps rather than as a single clump (although I did that too at times). My logic was over time I could constrict Narwhal's operational space (he would have to make wider marches to get in behind me) and that at the worst, one corps or the other would be mauled in the first phase of a battle before the others arrived.
This was the first test of that, using Daun and von Bilberstein in tandem, but with the latter able to cover Prag as well. Since a direct attack on the city would still be in winter, over a river and at two entrenched formations, this is not too big a risk with Prag, It was, however, a big risk with Daun.
My logic was that the Prussians woudl try to take out Karlsbad and possibly Eger as well as try to block the escape. My hope was I wouldn't run into a too powerful a force, equally although Daun was ordered to Brux, my hope was he wouldn't reach and stay there.
In the event, the turn resolution was scary. A very large Prussian force moved west to Karlsbad
Wiped out the fixed garrison (it is unfortified), fortunately the damaged Saxon brigade that was resting there had moved south to safer places before they arrived.
More importantly, Moritz's Prussian cavalry deployed to Brux. Now Daun had fairly weak orders (I didn't want to attack outnumbered over a river with commitment in case a large force was there). In the battle I did a lot of damage to the cavalry in the first phase, and was then driven off when the bulk of Keith's army marched to the sounds of the guns.
Unfortunately the Saxons arrived too late and had to fight there own way out. Oddly trading all those damaged Saxon elements for a couple more Prussian cavalry is no bad deal. I also was incredibly lucky with the retreat route, they lept the Prussians and joined Daun and Von Bilberstein at Laun.
(situation after the battles)
(shows impact on the various forces, Rutowski was wounded in the battle so is not shown as commanding the remnants of the Saxons)
Other bonuses from the action was a very useful promotion, this gave me 4 corps in and around Prag and the ability to send the less good leaders back to Wien to organise all the reinforcements that pile up over the winter.
Its about this stage, that a number of important events fire, bringing France and Russia to the war (they stay inactive for a while) and replacing Browne with Charles. I then buzz Charles back to Wien (to organise the new stuff) and put Daun in charge of the army at Prag.
The outcome of wrecking Moritz and, so far, no brutal defensive battles (which I lose but hold my ground) is that my national morale is very high
Its not too important in Rise of Prussia, but it does have an effect on the combat performance of your armies.
One thing I did a lot of in this game was to raise a number of depot battalions for the HRE, Bavarian and Wurtemburg forces. You can do this before they unlock so they are in a better shaper than I usually have them. In this game, with Rutowski available, I can actually organise that large army that unlocks at Nuremburg to some effect. Normally I concentrate on the Austrians, but then often by this stage I have a lot of losses to recover.
Last edited:
Once again the retreat mechanics change the course of a campaign. Sometimes you get screwed, other times incredibly lucky. Over time it tends to even out.
Narwhal must have been surprised by your attack out of Prague, otherwise he wouldn't have risked his cavalry. I understand why he uses pure cavalry corps. But in my humble opinion it's too risky. It's ok to form an ad hoc cavalry corps for a short time as a task force. But a permanent cavalry corps will only end in a lot of dead horses and high enemy NM.
In the big picture that Saxon campaign is worth gold to you. Narwhal has suffered a nice amount of casualties killing an army that was never supposed to survive. Even better you salvaged some pieces of it. But the icing on that cake is that the Prussians appear to have spent several turns operating in the snow (attrition!) instead of resting in their winter quarters.
Don't worry about surviving 1757 (not that there is much to worry to begin with), by mid-summer you should be able to attack.
One suggestion: could you add the amount of NM gained or lost to the battlereports in the future?
Narwhal must have been surprised by your attack out of Prague, otherwise he wouldn't have risked his cavalry. I understand why he uses pure cavalry corps. But in my humble opinion it's too risky. It's ok to form an ad hoc cavalry corps for a short time as a task force. But a permanent cavalry corps will only end in a lot of dead horses and high enemy NM.
In the big picture that Saxon campaign is worth gold to you. Narwhal has suffered a nice amount of casualties killing an army that was never supposed to survive. Even better you salvaged some pieces of it. But the icing on that cake is that the Prussians appear to have spent several turns operating in the snow (attrition!) instead of resting in their winter quarters.
Don't worry about surviving 1757 (not that there is much to worry to begin with), by mid-summer you should be able to attack.
One suggestion: could you add the amount of NM gained or lost to the battlereports in the future?
Here is why I failed to trigger the Saxon surrender. There are six conditions, and one of them is a bit tricky :
- >60% MC in Dipposwalde
- >60% MC in Dresden
- >60% MC in Radeberg
- >60% MC in Pirna itself.
- The city of Dresden under Prussian control
- Prussia has more (land) power in the Saxony theater than the Austrian player, fixed units having a coeff of 50%.
That's the reason why Saxony did not surrender. My army left Saxony completely and entered Bohemia. The Saxons have circa 1800 - 2000 power in Pirna, and I had no army left there, and the few garrison has a 50% coeff - and thus the even did not trigger.
I did not know this rule before playing this game - now I know it
- Prussia has more (land) power in the Saxony theater than the Austrian player, fixed units having a coeff of 50%.
That's the reason why Saxony did not surrender. My army left Saxony completely and entered Bohemia. The Saxons have circa 1800 - 2000 power in Pirna, and I had no army left there, and the few garrison has a 50% coeff - and thus the even did not trigger.
I did not know this rule before playing this game - now I know it
really hadn't realised that either, so in effect, with the Prussians you can't move out of Saxony till Pirna falls, not there is anything the Austrians can do?
I think this game maybe the last time I trade on the reputation of being cautious to be honest, it was scary to set up as the worst was no Prussians there and then Daun would have ended the move isolated and next to Keith. That would have set up a mauling with an unknown retreat route (though I think I could have escaped with not too many losses).
will do about the bigger battles, that one cost me 2NM (as I 'lost' the NM price is extracted from my side).
The retreat mechanics at some stage need an overhaul. There it really worked for me, ok with Daun I expected to bounce back to Laun (that rhymes!), but that the Saxons lept over the exhausted Prussian cavalry was rather unexpected. Otherwise I would have just blown up the key things and got out the leaders. The problem is that with downright wierd retreats &/or pingpong retreats it can reduce a long and complex game to a one off lottery
Last edited:
"Thou bitter biting frost": February-March 1757
The balance of February 1757 saw no meaningful action, Daun's raid had allowed what was left of the Saxons to escape. My main goal was to build up the Austrian force at Prag as fast as possible with the reinforcements that unlock steadily in early 1757.
So by the end of the month, the situation was as at the start, with the exception of a Prussian siege at Eger.
Not much I can do about this and I'm not too worried. By the time the passes clear, even if the Bavarian-HRE force at Nuremburg is still locked, it won't be damaged by a single Prussian corps. Equally Daun is strong enough to keep the bulk of the Prussians at Lobositz for now.
Beyond that the main news was of a UKIP inspired decision to risk coming to observe the Continent by the British ...
In the meantime while I am spending most of my money and conscript companies on a steady stream of depot battalions (and a few regular Austrian battalions), I decide to buy a new supply wagon for the French. The main reason is that once you reach Munster, you probably need to build up the existing depots (in fact a sneaky Prussian player may even blow them up) so as to put your army in force onto the Wesel and threaten Hannover.
However, it seems that neither the French nor the Russians are taking this war very seriously:
By early March, war has come to Pommerania with an early Prussian siezure of Rostock
And France starts to mobilize.
One decision is the best use of those forces that start on the lower Rhein. Options are Kassel (hard to take but quite useful), reinforce the main army or send to Bavaria. Since this time I feel that Bavaria is threatened, and I have the means to make better use of the Bavarian army anyway, I decide to send Chevert's corp to Bavaria. The bulk when they unlock in April will go to support the Rhineland campaign.
On the middle Rhine, the French cavalry that unlock first at sent to Wesel, if I get lucky I may catch those Prussian infantry unawares.
Wesel is hard to take but essential to build a supply line to Munster and eastwards. Anyway, that Prussian force is ridden down by the French cavalry
Sweden decides to join in the fun, and a fresh HRE force arrives at the now Prussian occupied Rostock, since they are locked for 7 turns this is not going to end well.
The good thing of no major clashes in 1756 is that my army at Prag is already quite strong
but overall there has been little movement, except for the siege at Eger
Eger falls, opening the way into Bavaria
And Spring arrives.
The balance of February 1757 saw no meaningful action, Daun's raid had allowed what was left of the Saxons to escape. My main goal was to build up the Austrian force at Prag as fast as possible with the reinforcements that unlock steadily in early 1757.
So by the end of the month, the situation was as at the start, with the exception of a Prussian siege at Eger.
Not much I can do about this and I'm not too worried. By the time the passes clear, even if the Bavarian-HRE force at Nuremburg is still locked, it won't be damaged by a single Prussian corps. Equally Daun is strong enough to keep the bulk of the Prussians at Lobositz for now.
Beyond that the main news was of a UKIP inspired decision to risk coming to observe the Continent by the British ...
In the meantime while I am spending most of my money and conscript companies on a steady stream of depot battalions (and a few regular Austrian battalions), I decide to buy a new supply wagon for the French. The main reason is that once you reach Munster, you probably need to build up the existing depots (in fact a sneaky Prussian player may even blow them up) so as to put your army in force onto the Wesel and threaten Hannover.
However, it seems that neither the French nor the Russians are taking this war very seriously:
By early March, war has come to Pommerania with an early Prussian siezure of Rostock
And France starts to mobilize.
One decision is the best use of those forces that start on the lower Rhein. Options are Kassel (hard to take but quite useful), reinforce the main army or send to Bavaria. Since this time I feel that Bavaria is threatened, and I have the means to make better use of the Bavarian army anyway, I decide to send Chevert's corp to Bavaria. The bulk when they unlock in April will go to support the Rhineland campaign.
On the middle Rhine, the French cavalry that unlock first at sent to Wesel, if I get lucky I may catch those Prussian infantry unawares.
Wesel is hard to take but essential to build a supply line to Munster and eastwards. Anyway, that Prussian force is ridden down by the French cavalry
Sweden decides to join in the fun, and a fresh HRE force arrives at the now Prussian occupied Rostock, since they are locked for 7 turns this is not going to end well.
The good thing of no major clashes in 1756 is that my army at Prag is already quite strong
but overall there has been little movement, except for the siege at Eger
Eger falls, opening the way into Bavaria
And Spring arrives.
In defense to what seems like - and is - poor moves, the Saxony resistance had completely smashed my timetable. My plan was to "try" to destroy the Bavarians in the very first turns, just as proposed by Anazagar in the previous AAR, but I did not stop to ask myself the following questions : "is my strategy still sustainable ?".
So there was a 2 or 3 turns delay due to the Saxons, but, more importantly, the hunt for the Saxons meant a good chunk of my force - Frederick's column - was still in Saxony, and could not arrive because Frederick was - of all things - inactive one turn, then slowed down by rain.
So basically, instead of 2 columns going to destroy the Saxons very early, I had only one. And that was not all the troubles that befell on Ferdinand's column.
So there was a 2 or 3 turns delay due to the Saxons, but, more importantly, the hunt for the Saxons meant a good chunk of my force - Frederick's column - was still in Saxony, and could not arrive because Frederick was - of all things - inactive one turn, then slowed down by rain.
So basically, instead of 2 columns going to destroy the Saxons very early, I had only one. And that was not all the troubles that befell on Ferdinand's column.
Just so you know, a lot of people I think are reading this/going to be reading this. Excellent commentary on your tactics from both sides. Excellent comments on strategies that worked and strategies that did not work and the outcomes of each.
Are the French and Russian difficulties in paying their troops scripted to happen, or did your allies just get unlucky at the same time?
It's interesting to see how the Pirna situation makes such a difference: not just in Bohemia, but also in loki's plans for Bavaria, for the French intervention... This is shaping up to be a rather unusual playthrough - and all the more interesting for it.
well to be honest, I've sold my post-Pirna plan in the AAR as to get the Saxons out, and to some extent that was true. But I also had decided to be as annoying as possible with them in any case. I put together one set of orders (that I then cancelled) to break them down, blow up the wagons & guns, and just run around Saxony getting in the way of your supply lines.
Also about Bohemia, as in the next post, you were very unlucky with a late return of winter at the end of April
glad you're enjoying it. I know I've said this before but the AGEOD game engine shines in MP, esp with the end turn simultaneous resolution.
glad its helpful in that respect. I am trying to explain what I'm doing but it remains my idiosyncratic interpretation of how to play the Austrian side. From a bit more testing, I think with the Prussians you have to take out Pirna as scripted, but that severly limits what you can do in 1756,
No its a random event that fires but reflects the cash shortage on the Austrian side. There are 3 bad events, bad sanitation (some manpower, some cohesion), which hits your largest single force (in power terms) - for the Austrians this is pointless as a result as it always hits the fixed garrison in Hungary; the not paid (much the same, random, not too bad) and a plague event (random and very bad, you dip to 0 org, so a 1600 power column becomes worthless). The last is awful if it hits at the wrong moment, I have a screenshot from later in the summer campaign that will show this rather well.
It's interesting to see how the Pirna situation makes such a difference: not just in Bohemia, but also in loki's plans for Bavaria, for the French intervention... This is shaping up to be a rather unusual playthrough - and all the more interesting for it.
yes its mixed up the standard sequence. I've obviously gained, but its scarcely game changing in itself. What it has done is meant our armies in Bohemia/Saxony are much more evenly matched and that has led to much more movement than bashing each other to pieces. We're in late August 57 now and yet to have a major clash but an awful lot of feints and grabbing important positions for later advantage.
Its good to see Bavaria in play, my old SP AAR seems to have been almost unique in that respect.
"Just at the bit": April 1757
This was a quiet pair of turns, so I'll mostly concentrate on background stuff. The final part of the update is a discussion of the reinforcement and replacement cycle, those only interested in the AAR can easily skip that.
One main job in this period is sorting out all those Austrian units that pile up at Wien and Pressburg over the winter. They mostly unlock about now (some a bit earlier, some a bit later).
Here I'd sent Picolomini and Kollowrate back in the winter, and Nadasdy appeared (you get him by event) to help out. Charles is back there to make an army.
Now my plan was to use Picolomini as the heart of a force to campaign on the Oder. As you get more brigadiers later, the basic organisation of this army is a bit of a mess for now.
In the meantime the main bulk were sent to Prag
Another job (these turns are a bit 'administrative' for the Austrians) is to do with the HRE/Bavarian forces. But till they unlock you cannot do much to allocate brigade command etc.
One choice is what to do with 5 brigades of quite useful units. You can send them to Bohemia where they join the Austrian army. This will annoy the French and cost you VP. Allow them to mobilise at home (the south of the map, about 3 turns marching from any use but you get more EP for this). Or, as I tend to do, at Nuremburg with the rest of the Bavarian army.
And finally the French unlock. Now I started with quite an ambitious plan to leapfrog Wesel and go for Munster at the same time. In reality you can't do this due to supply problems, but this was my original set of orders.
By late April, the Prussians have entered Bavaria near Bayreuth but the passes have blocked behind them. So I think that was their chance to really hit the force at Nuremburg has gone (note its still locked). Especially when the Wien reinforcements start to arrive at Prag, making Daun much more dangerous (I could hold the passes and invade Saxony while the Prussians were in Bavaria)
The war in the north hots up
But unusually for us, the overall death rate has remained very low.
Which sort of leads me to a short digression on reinforcements and replacements. Narwhal has already covered the essentials in Learning from Prussia and, as far as I know, all that is still valid. So this is purely from the Austrian perspective.
In essence you get reinforcements from 4 sources.
For example a large French force (in addition to the above) unlocks in early Autumn 1757 and the final batch in early Summer 1758 (I forget the exact dates). The Russians receive an additional corps this way in the Winter of 1757-8. Now these are 'on the map' at the start but unuseable till they unlock.
The bulk of these pile up around Wien and Pressburg over the winter of 1756 and unlock in early Spring 1757. As above, its a good idea to preposition Charles and some corps commanders to sort them out and move them to the front. Actually you need combat ready corps to go to Prag as it maybe an active battle zone. You get another 8 battalions in late summer 1757 and 4 (I think) in Spring 1758 as the Empire strips its forces in the quiet sectors (remember that notionally the Turks are in alliance with Prussia so the forces in Croatia and Hungary are essential in case of active war breaking out). The French get 3-4 brigades of Saxons in 1758 by the same method.
Usually for the Austrians these are hard to come by (not least you often have them stripped off you to restore your National Morale (NM). You mostly get 1 of two things this way. You can spend them on replacements, these go into a stockpile and are then used to replace losses in your field battalions. This is the only way to replace losses in your cavalry, artillery and light infantry, and you have separate pools for every nationality.
You can also use EP to buy 'mercenaries' for France. I think these are good value (10 EP+60 cash) gets you 6-10 battalions (incl 3-4 cavalry), usually with their own brigade commanders. You can also spend EP to gain more Swedes, the 25EP 'large reinforcement' brings 10 brigades (around 30 battalions) but with no corps commander, so you will need to send someone with the 'HRE' trait to help out with the command structure.
Conscript companies come from cities you own, from Prisoners of War and returning losses (differential rates for those lost to attrition and those lost in battle). For Prussia this is an easy source of new units (as they have no cash constraint), for Austria, your cash problem limits the ability to draw these down. However, they are 'generic' and can be used by all your nationalities. With these you can build almost any regular battalion – infantry, cavalry, guns, supply wagons or specialists.
Or you can build depot battalions (either regular or elite).
Once these 'finish training' they go into your replacement pool and allow you to rebuild losses (but only for the appropriate type of infantry). For the most part, I concentrate on depot battalions as you have a shortage of brigadiers and can't often make the best use of the field army you have. You can, for example, build about 8 depot battalions for the HRE, Bavarian and Wurtemburg army at Nuremburg so when it unlocks it is quite strong. But this rather depends, if you have had a brutal autumn in Bohemia defending Prag, then quite often the Austrians have to be your priority.
This is from much later in the game, actually the current turn we are playing, and shows the view for me. I've never worried about 'war supplies', as you can see I have a lot of reserve manpower (conscript companies) and very little cash/EP. As an aside, if you ever occupy Berlin, you can levy a rather nice tax on the inhabitants --- or just it burn it down
You can see this using the 'supply' map mode as;
Actually I very rarely use the other map views as they are not that essential in RoP. But this shows how Wien is critical to my war economy. In truth if this is ever threatened then I lost the game a long time ago.
Now in theory this means you can wage economic warfare, in truth I scarcely ever look at this map view as by the time I am taking or losing economically critical cities its also probably a clear victory in any case.
This was a quiet pair of turns, so I'll mostly concentrate on background stuff. The final part of the update is a discussion of the reinforcement and replacement cycle, those only interested in the AAR can easily skip that.
One main job in this period is sorting out all those Austrian units that pile up at Wien and Pressburg over the winter. They mostly unlock about now (some a bit earlier, some a bit later).
Here I'd sent Picolomini and Kollowrate back in the winter, and Nadasdy appeared (you get him by event) to help out. Charles is back there to make an army.
Now my plan was to use Picolomini as the heart of a force to campaign on the Oder. As you get more brigadiers later, the basic organisation of this army is a bit of a mess for now.
In the meantime the main bulk were sent to Prag
Another job (these turns are a bit 'administrative' for the Austrians) is to do with the HRE/Bavarian forces. But till they unlock you cannot do much to allocate brigade command etc.
One choice is what to do with 5 brigades of quite useful units. You can send them to Bohemia where they join the Austrian army. This will annoy the French and cost you VP. Allow them to mobilise at home (the south of the map, about 3 turns marching from any use but you get more EP for this). Or, as I tend to do, at Nuremburg with the rest of the Bavarian army.
And finally the French unlock. Now I started with quite an ambitious plan to leapfrog Wesel and go for Munster at the same time. In reality you can't do this due to supply problems, but this was my original set of orders.
By late April, the Prussians have entered Bavaria near Bayreuth but the passes have blocked behind them. So I think that was their chance to really hit the force at Nuremburg has gone (note its still locked). Especially when the Wien reinforcements start to arrive at Prag, making Daun much more dangerous (I could hold the passes and invade Saxony while the Prussians were in Bavaria)
The war in the north hots up
But unusually for us, the overall death rate has remained very low.
Which sort of leads me to a short digression on reinforcements and replacements. Narwhal has already covered the essentials in Learning from Prussia and, as far as I know, all that is still valid. So this is purely from the Austrian perspective.
In essence you get reinforcements from 4 sources.
For example a large French force (in addition to the above) unlocks in early Autumn 1757 and the final batch in early Summer 1758 (I forget the exact dates). The Russians receive an additional corps this way in the Winter of 1757-8. Now these are 'on the map' at the start but unuseable till they unlock.
The bulk of these pile up around Wien and Pressburg over the winter of 1756 and unlock in early Spring 1757. As above, its a good idea to preposition Charles and some corps commanders to sort them out and move them to the front. Actually you need combat ready corps to go to Prag as it maybe an active battle zone. You get another 8 battalions in late summer 1757 and 4 (I think) in Spring 1758 as the Empire strips its forces in the quiet sectors (remember that notionally the Turks are in alliance with Prussia so the forces in Croatia and Hungary are essential in case of active war breaking out). The French get 3-4 brigades of Saxons in 1758 by the same method.
.
Usually for the Austrians these are hard to come by (not least you often have them stripped off you to restore your National Morale (NM). You mostly get 1 of two things this way. You can spend them on replacements, these go into a stockpile and are then used to replace losses in your field battalions. This is the only way to replace losses in your cavalry, artillery and light infantry, and you have separate pools for every nationality.
You can also use EP to buy 'mercenaries' for France. I think these are good value (10 EP+60 cash) gets you 6-10 battalions (incl 3-4 cavalry), usually with their own brigade commanders. You can also spend EP to gain more Swedes, the 25EP 'large reinforcement' brings 10 brigades (around 30 battalions) but with no corps commander, so you will need to send someone with the 'HRE' trait to help out with the command structure.
.
Conscript companies come from cities you own, from Prisoners of War and returning losses (differential rates for those lost to attrition and those lost in battle). For Prussia this is an easy source of new units (as they have no cash constraint), for Austria, your cash problem limits the ability to draw these down. However, they are 'generic' and can be used by all your nationalities. With these you can build almost any regular battalion – infantry, cavalry, guns, supply wagons or specialists.
Or you can build depot battalions (either regular or elite).
Once these 'finish training' they go into your replacement pool and allow you to rebuild losses (but only for the appropriate type of infantry). For the most part, I concentrate on depot battalions as you have a shortage of brigadiers and can't often make the best use of the field army you have. You can, for example, build about 8 depot battalions for the HRE, Bavarian and Wurtemburg army at Nuremburg so when it unlocks it is quite strong. But this rather depends, if you have had a brutal autumn in Bohemia defending Prag, then quite often the Austrians have to be your priority.
This is from much later in the game, actually the current turn we are playing, and shows the view for me. I've never worried about 'war supplies', as you can see I have a lot of reserve manpower (conscript companies) and very little cash/EP. As an aside, if you ever occupy Berlin, you can levy a rather nice tax on the inhabitants --- or just it burn it down
You can see this using the 'supply' map mode as;
Actually I very rarely use the other map views as they are not that essential in RoP. But this shows how Wien is critical to my war economy. In truth if this is ever threatened then I lost the game a long time ago.
Now in theory this means you can wage economic warfare, in truth I scarcely ever look at this map view as by the time I am taking or losing economically critical cities its also probably a clear victory in any case.
Rather heavy on the logistics, there, but hey, it's what wins wars, right? Nice to have the overview/reminder of reinforcement mechanics.
The weather's cooperating (in closing the mountain passes), the French are suiting up, Bavaria might prove useful, you still have a handful of Saxons... Your coalition of the willing is a sight to behold! Not that I'll ever breathe easily until Narwhal is comprehensively beaten - he has a tendency of turning things around rather quickly - but overall the situation seems pretty decent for you, right now. And time is on your side...
Nice to have the overview/reminder of reinforcement mechanics.The weather's cooperating (in closing the mountain passes), the French are suiting up, Bavaria might prove useful, you still have a handful of Saxons... Your coalition of the willing is a sight to behold! Not that I'll ever breathe easily until Narwhal is comprehensively beaten - he has a tendency of turning things around rather quickly - but overall the situation seems pretty decent for you, right now. And time is on your side...
Excellent AAR! I enjoy your gameplay focus (my favorite type of AAR) very much. I've neglected this particular AGEOD game completely until coming across your AAR, as well as Narwhal's, but you've very successfully piqued my interest... I hope you crush those pesky Prussian upstarts.:angry:
A question: what exactly do depot battalions do? My first guess was that they are used in constructing depots, however you've indicated that supply wagons are used in this capacity, as in other AGEOD games.
A question: what exactly do depot battalions do? My first guess was that they are used in constructing depots, however you've indicated that supply wagons are used in this capacity, as in other AGEOD games.
Rather heavy on the logistics, there, but hey, it's what wins wars, right?
The weather's cooperating (in closing the mountain passes), the French are suiting up, Bavaria might prove useful, you still have a handful of Saxons... Your coalition of the willing is a sight to behold! Not that I'll ever breathe easily until Narwhal is comprehensively beaten - he has a tendency of turning things around rather quickly - but overall the situation seems pretty decent for you, right now. And time is on your side...
My idea of Narwhal being beaten in this game is when the Fleur de Lils flutters over the Brandenburg Gate and the two Empresses are having a jolly knees up in the Imperial Palace, anything before that carries the risk of defeat.
In truth there are a few batches of turns were for the Austrians its a bit of a grind through the OOB stuff. The Russians and French are both pretty inefficiently ordered and with both I like to build one 'siege' corps where I concentrate certain types of units. As I learnt in my SP game, if you spread this out, your overall lack of artillery means that sieges take an age, concentrated you can knock off the forts with some speed.
I was incredibly lucky with that late winter turn. I don't think that Narwhal had time to go and really destroy the Bavarians but with their current command maluses, even in a single round of combat, they'd have been left as a shambles for the rest of the 1757.
My rough goal is to slowly build up, as long as I lose nothing (important) time is on my side.
Its currently my favourite AGEOD game. I find WiA more polished, and the new scenarios complete gems, RUS has huge potential and is now getting lots of attention, but this one (partly the era) has a scale and flow that is very pleasing.
Depot battalions are unique to RoP in the AGEOD system. In effect you convert conscript companies into usable units. One choice is a depot bn (or depot grenadier bn). These sit immobile in a fortress till they are ready (so are on map and can be lost if the fort falls). When they are trained up they disappear and become 3 replacement points (of the appropriate type) and are used to repair your battered combat units. This is essential as lost elements within units cost you VPs (you notice as the war goes on that casualties are more and more likely to lead to permanent losses otherwise).
Its pretty unintuitive and opaque, but the link to Narwhal's Learning from Prussia does cover the process pretty well - when I first started playing RoP I had that printed out next to me to help me understand the system.
Last edited:
"True Pathos and Sublime": May 1757
While all the armies slowly move into position to start killing each other, France, Austria and Russia decide it would be a good idea to agree on why they were fighting this war:
France
One piece of trivia. A large problem with the Austrian side is a lack of artillery (except for the Russians, who are, as is traditional, awash in cannon). In particular the Austrian start with just one siege gun unit (and I have a habit of losing this – very careless). Now Sappers are good substitutes, they are a lot cheaper than siege guns (which cost 300 units of cash compared to 90 for the Sappers), but also give a +1 on the chances of making a breach. So I'd ordered up this bunch of happy chaps, and they are now off to join that French corps I sent into Bavaria a while back.
The main French armies arrive north and south of Wesel at the start of the month, and at this stage scouting implies only limited opposition (a bit of a false illusion as I know there is a 20,000 or so Hannoverian army in the region 'observing').
My original plan had sent Broglie to invest Wesel and the other 2 corps rush for Munster. However I had an outbreak of common sense as I worked out there was no way would I manage to take it before my supply ran out. So they all fell back to help take Wesel (where I can easily resupply from Dusseldorf).
Now as it happened, this was a good idea all round as Freddie arrives. I don't think he has many Prussian units with him but even so. I have another corps moving up from the Lower Rhine, Wesel is very easy to defend, so I'm glad I've pulled back for now.
May ends with the fall of Wesel which is handy as a level 3 depot well protected by rivers. It gives me a useful base of operations as it seems as if Frederick this time is determined to protect the Rhineland. If so, I can wait a while for fresh forces to move and build up the army to around 90,000 (from the 50,000 I have at the moment).
Not only did I gain the city, but more NM due to the size of the garrison (I guess this was the infantry force my cavalry beat up in late April).
Bohemia
Well May opens with a not unexpected, but rather worrying Prussian move towards Prag.
My guess is we will have the traditional move to Ritschan followed by the equally traditional bloodbath at Prag. In outcome the Prussians swung a lot more to the south at Pitbans and my second fear was that Narwhal was going to gamble on his supply lines in order to wreck one or the other of the corps marching up from Wien.
In outcome, they fell back to protect Saxony. Again, this indicates that in RoP, often not moving and not responding can be effective.
Bavaria
Over in Bavaria the Prussians move onto Bayreuth as the still locked Bavarian army watches with only mild interest (obviously they are not opera fans).
This is from late May, the French at Wurzburg are recovering organisation from their march. Also I don't want to risk them till I know what the Prussians have planned. Even locked, the Bavarians are strong enough to defend Nuremberg. And fortunately they finally decide to take an active part in the war in June.
The North
In the meantime in Pommerania a large Prussian corps has arrived to threaten my still completely locked HRE formation at Rostock. I don't think this will end well, as you can see they are menaced by a force at least 7, probably 10, times their strength (and they don't unlock for another 4 turns).
And the very first Russian cossacks move in East Prussia. I'll scout Memel, check there is no field army at Koenigsberg (I'm pretty sure there isn't) and then send these into Poland (they can draw supply 'for free' from Gdansk, Poznan and Esping). This is nice, but someone has to start paying the Russian army.
So May passed off again with no main actions. I've taken Wesel, my current plan is to wait on key sectors. By the end of June the Bavarians should be able to invest Eger, there is a fresh French corps starting to move up the Rhine, 3 corps of Austrians marching to the front and the Russians (underpaid) are on the way.
To my way of thinking I gain nothing from big battles now (except to defend key cities) when I will be a lot stronger in 4-5 weeks.
In general in this game, neither of us have been too keen on risking a large battle. For various reasons, if you suffer a really bad defeat (ie a long attritional battle or retreat to a bad position), RoP can be very unforgiving and it becomes hard to recover. Not least as a player will then do all they can (sensibly) to maximise that gain. So in part as the various forces facing each other are relatively even (in the summer of 1757), and in part due to some caution, this remained a war mostly of menace and manouver for a while.
While all the armies slowly move into position to start killing each other, France, Austria and Russia decide it would be a good idea to agree on why they were fighting this war:
France
One piece of trivia. A large problem with the Austrian side is a lack of artillery (except for the Russians, who are, as is traditional, awash in cannon). In particular the Austrian start with just one siege gun unit (and I have a habit of losing this – very careless). Now Sappers are good substitutes, they are a lot cheaper than siege guns (which cost 300 units of cash compared to 90 for the Sappers), but also give a +1 on the chances of making a breach. So I'd ordered up this bunch of happy chaps, and they are now off to join that French corps I sent into Bavaria a while back.
The main French armies arrive north and south of Wesel at the start of the month, and at this stage scouting implies only limited opposition (a bit of a false illusion as I know there is a 20,000 or so Hannoverian army in the region 'observing').
My original plan had sent Broglie to invest Wesel and the other 2 corps rush for Munster. However I had an outbreak of common sense as I worked out there was no way would I manage to take it before my supply ran out. So they all fell back to help take Wesel (where I can easily resupply from Dusseldorf).
Now as it happened, this was a good idea all round as Freddie arrives. I don't think he has many Prussian units with him but even so. I have another corps moving up from the Lower Rhine, Wesel is very easy to defend, so I'm glad I've pulled back for now.
May ends with the fall of Wesel which is handy as a level 3 depot well protected by rivers. It gives me a useful base of operations as it seems as if Frederick this time is determined to protect the Rhineland. If so, I can wait a while for fresh forces to move and build up the army to around 90,000 (from the 50,000 I have at the moment).
Not only did I gain the city, but more NM due to the size of the garrison (I guess this was the infantry force my cavalry beat up in late April).
Bohemia
Well May opens with a not unexpected, but rather worrying Prussian move towards Prag.
My guess is we will have the traditional move to Ritschan followed by the equally traditional bloodbath at Prag. In outcome the Prussians swung a lot more to the south at Pitbans and my second fear was that Narwhal was going to gamble on his supply lines in order to wreck one or the other of the corps marching up from Wien.
In outcome, they fell back to protect Saxony. Again, this indicates that in RoP, often not moving and not responding can be effective.
Bavaria
Over in Bavaria the Prussians move onto Bayreuth as the still locked Bavarian army watches with only mild interest (obviously they are not opera fans).
This is from late May, the French at Wurzburg are recovering organisation from their march. Also I don't want to risk them till I know what the Prussians have planned. Even locked, the Bavarians are strong enough to defend Nuremberg. And fortunately they finally decide to take an active part in the war in June.
The North
In the meantime in Pommerania a large Prussian corps has arrived to threaten my still completely locked HRE formation at Rostock. I don't think this will end well, as you can see they are menaced by a force at least 7, probably 10, times their strength (and they don't unlock for another 4 turns).
And the very first Russian cossacks move in East Prussia. I'll scout Memel, check there is no field army at Koenigsberg (I'm pretty sure there isn't) and then send these into Poland (they can draw supply 'for free' from Gdansk, Poznan and Esping). This is nice, but someone has to start paying the Russian army.
So May passed off again with no main actions. I've taken Wesel, my current plan is to wait on key sectors. By the end of June the Bavarians should be able to invest Eger, there is a fresh French corps starting to move up the Rhine, 3 corps of Austrians marching to the front and the Russians (underpaid) are on the way.
To my way of thinking I gain nothing from big battles now (except to defend key cities) when I will be a lot stronger in 4-5 weeks.
In general in this game, neither of us have been too keen on risking a large battle. For various reasons, if you suffer a really bad defeat (ie a long attritional battle or retreat to a bad position), RoP can be very unforgiving and it becomes hard to recover. Not least as a player will then do all they can (sensibly) to maximise that gain. So in part as the various forces facing each other are relatively even (in the summer of 1757), and in part due to some caution, this remained a war mostly of menace and manouver for a while.
It's a tradition, so it must be good, eh?
Another solid turn - in my mind, as long as you're not being beaten to a pulp by Narwhal, you're basically winning (at least compared to the historical thrashing that Austria received).
I look forward to more news on the eagerly awaited Cossacks. Perhaps all these Russian pay issues will encourage them to, what's the quaint phrase again, oh yes, "Live off the land" with extra vigor.
Great update!
I have to disagree with this statement, though. While it is true for the Prussians, the opposite applies to the Austrian side (at least in my humble opinion). The fastest way to beat Prussia is to make the war as bloody as possible. The higher casualties get the more difficult will it become for them to replenish their troops. At first his light cavalry will become a useless carcass, then his elite infantry brigades, then the heavy cavalry, ...
Secondly, Austria can afford to take some risks, it can even afford to lose a few army corps. They get plenty of reinforcements that will make up for the losses. As long as you can keep casualties rates close, every battle is an Austrian victory.
Sounds bloodthirsty - I know, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing if you play the Austrains.:blush:
I have to disagree with this statement, though. While it is true for the Prussians, the opposite applies to the Austrian side (at least in my humble opinion). The fastest way to beat Prussia is to make the war as bloody as possible. The higher casualties get the more difficult will it become for them to replenish their troops. At first his light cavalry will become a useless carcass, then his elite infantry brigades, then the heavy cavalry, ...
Secondly, Austria can afford to take some risks, it can even afford to lose a few army corps. They get plenty of reinforcements that will make up for the losses. As long as you can keep casualties rates close, every battle is an Austrian victory.
Sounds bloodthirsty - I know, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing if you play the Austrains.:blush: